[kevmo314]

> are often erroneously cited as analogous to efficiency gains

Sure, I can believe that, but...

> doing anything of value for their own self-preservation

Even your own comment relies on some metric of value.

I agree that profit motives are not an ideal metric of value but as your comment suggests, we as a species do rely on some metric of value. I'm not infuriated until there's a better metric.

[sundaeofshock]

If we don’t figure out a way to keep people alive and relatively happy, the metric may become pitchforks per angry mob.

I used to wonder if a Butlerian Jihad was plausible or just an interesting plot device. Now, it seems more plausible every day.

[kevmo314]

Yeah that's totally possible but I suspect if AI really does take over software, the number of people who will riot over software quality is going to be dwarfed by the number of people who are happier that they can get their chats GPT'd faster.

[sundaeofshock]

What makes you think that capitalists will stop with software developers? If AI can truly eliminate software jobs, then most knowledge based jobs will be at risk of elimination.

Let’s be honest; capital wants to eliminate all labor, and damn the consequences. People are not going to willingly give up lives of comfort for abject squalor. This will not go well.

[kevmo314]

I don't think they will but I also don't think abject squalor is the way to describe artisanal work.

On top of that, I agree that capitalists continue to eliminate jobs but I also think they create jobs in other sectors. The reason I don't buy into doomsday scenarios is I don't believe they will eliminate all the jobs at once.

I only happen to be a software engineer. If I was born 250 years ago, I'm sure I would've found a creative innovation outlet through another industry.

[int_19h]

The long-term promise of AI is that every job can be automated at scale. This is very different from past industrial advancements in technology.

As for artisans, they'll do fine, but the point is that it's a much smaller niche, so very few people who have jobs today will be the lucky ones to squeeze into it.

[stego-tech]

> I'm not infuriated until there's a better metric.

That attitude is the equivalent of a frog in a boiling pot going, "I won't leave until you have a better idea of where to go."

Value is - and always will be - subjective. Whenever society forms a centralized definition of value, it is immediately gamed and exploited by those who seek profit and power. Currency and profit are extreme forms of Goodhart's Law, the civilizational equivalent to "Tickets Closed" or "Lines of Code Written" KPIs.

To demand objective measure of subjectivity is to fight a fool's battle.

[kevmo314]

That's fair but not a convincing argument if you're seeking to show that the pot is boiling. I don't believe it is and writing off the rebuttal is akin to "well it's boiling, just trust me".

[stego-tech]

> I don't believe it is and writing off the rebuttal is akin to "well it's boiling, just trust me".

Which would be a fair counter-argument to have if so many of you (and people like you) weren't also trying to drag those of us looking to escape back into the fucking pot.

If you want to sit and boil, fine, but for chrissakes let those of us who wish to try anything other than boiling alive go do that. Your staunch refusal to confront reality is your problem, but your insistence on harming others so you don't have to confront reality should be criminal.

[kevmo314]

> let those of us who wish to try anything other than boiling alive go do that

Ok? Who is stopping you? Nobody here is prohibiting you from continuing to write code by hand and doing whatever you wish. Certainly if you're going to assert that that's criminal, of course I'm not interested in your vinegar.

[collingreen]

Life would certainly be easier if we could all choose which things done by other people affect us and vice versa. Then we could have these simple "if you don't like it, leave" arguments hold water and air pollution wouldn't exist and herd immunity wouldn't be a thing and we wouldn't even need police.

[kevmo314]

There is a big gap between the other commenter's desire to write code by hand and air pollution.

Look, as a programmer I also love writing code by hand, however it's childish to suggest that if I can no longer make a living doing so because automated code production is more profitable that that's equivalent to boiling in a pot or suffering from air pollution.

There are substantiative risks with AI, such as a potential for a singularity, that would make for an actual compelling argument. Some engineer's desire to make a living writing code by hand does not. That's a luxury.