[asmxyz]

There are _other options_!

You're argument is that the only two alternatives are that the ruling class and owning class be separate groups of people, or the same group of people. And either way the labor class if F'ed. You're right that having the ruling class and the owning class being the _same people_ is terrible. That's what we're living in right now!

But what about the labor class being the owning class? What if Amazon was owned by the people who work at Amazon? Instead of Bezos?

[WalterBright]

The labor class is free to form collectives and cooperatives. There's no law against it.

Bezos started Amazon with $300,000. I'm sure it wouldn't take too long for workers to raise that kind of money, after all, $300,000 to buy a house is considered cheap.

On the other hand, the history of businesses being confiscated and handed over to the workers has not been a successful one.

[whatshisface]

But startups are worker-owned, insofar as the founders are able to profit from it.

[WalterBright]

Some startups are worker-owned through stock grants, but those grants are rarely evenly distributed. The founders hold the majority as long as they can.

It is a good practice for companies to include stock as part of the pay package. It encourages alignment of the company with the employees. Very, very successful companies follow this model, such as Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Google, etc.

[whatshisface]

It seems to indicate that if Amazon was employee-owned today, the first thing they would vote to do is convert future hires into non-owners, because that's what the founders did when it was actually employee-owned.

[KerrAvon]

Not entirely sure what you're saying here. Amazon still provides stock to employees as part of the comp package, AFAIK.

[curmudgeon22]

I mean, it probably depends on the type of employee. I assume folks doing deliveries or working in warehouses aren't getting stock packages. I wonder if the admin or accounting folks do.

[mm263]

$600,000 after inflation

[azemetre]

The labor class should also advocate for workplace democracy to fight back.

Workers should be able to vote for their bosses.

Democratic societies are good for human flourishing. The only way to flourish is to have a thriving middle class.

Workplace democracy would be a boon for labor.

[Aurornis]

> But what about the labor class being the owning class? What if Amazon was owned by the people who work at Amazon? Instead of Bezos?

I wonder how many people who repeat things like this know that Bezos owns less than 10% of Amazon. About 2/3rds of Amazon is owned by institutional investors, much of which is in turn owned by individuals in their 401ks and other retirement plans. So "the people" own more of Amazon than Jeff Bezos already.

If you're implying that the government should confiscate Jeff Bezos' personal ownership stake in the business he created and redistribute it to other people, that's a very different topic. It's in the realm of fantasy, not reality, so I don't consider it very interesting. At minimum, it should be noted that if the government gets into the business of confiscating shares from people, the value of those shares will plummet as investors move their money into safer investments, so it wouldn't be a simple numerical wealth transfer from Bezos to others.

Regardless, there's nothing stopping people from getting together and starting an employee-owned collective company that enters the market. They can compete in the market and try to hire away talent from the other corporations.

[asmxyz]

Yes, Bezos only owns ~10%, but I think it's fair to say that, of Amazon employees and owners, he has more than 10% of the power within Amazon.

If warehouse workers want better conditions they have to solve a national coordination problem without getting crushed. If Bezos wants their working conditions to be more efficient he has to write a memo.

Edit: to connect this back to ownership. This disparity is directly responsible for determining whether profits pay fair wages or got to Bezos and the other owners.

[worik]

Given the low pay and harsh conditions of the people who create the wealth of Amazon, I do not see confiscating it from the current owners as a Bad Thing

There are probably better means to achieve better ends, but the status quo is very fucking rotten

[egypturnash]

"2/3 of Amazon is owned by institutional investors" is a long-ass way from "Amazon is owned by the people who work at Amazon".