[MrThoughtful]

Funny, in the comparison image the article shows for the 3 design styles - Skeuomorphic, Flat, Liquid Glass - the Skeuomorphic one looks absolutely best to me:

https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/6...

The items look so much more tangible, and the text is more readable. Everything is easy to grok visually. The flat design looks way more confusing. And the liquid glass one looks even worse.

[frereubu]

As I remember it, there was actually a step between Transition and Native in that image, which was noticeably flatter than Native. It was the first Ives interface, mentioned in the article: "iOS 7's initial release had similar problems: ultra-thin fonts that were hard to read, blue text links that didn't look clickable, animations that made some users motion sick. Apple responded with gradual refinements: thicker fonts, higher contrast, optional accessibility settings, and more obvious interactive elements." i.e. they made it much worse and then made it slightly less bad. I presume they'll follow a roughly similar path with this, when really, in my view, they should be reversing course on some of the fundamentals to make it easier to use. Scrollbars are a great example. I've got used to the fact that they're hidden on macOS now, but looks at some of the great ones from the past that have an almost tangible feel to them: https://imgur.com/scrollbars-through-history-fixed-jpdGk

[frollogaston]

Yeah, iOS 7 was unreadable. First time I ever had to go into accessibility settings (to enable bold fonts), and I was like 18 years old.

[frollogaston]

Also I think every iOS update after 7 has either stayed the same or added subtly more depth/shadows. In multiple steps.

[mcswell]

One reason I use a plain black background for my iPhone--I can actually read the labels under each icon. (I could use plain text rather than icons, but that's a different gripe.)

Also, I can actually read the battery level indicator in the skeuomorphic display. I sometimes resort to getting out a magnifying glass to read it on my iPhone's current display. (Yes, I have old eyes. And I have to keep telling those Apple UI people to get off my grass.)

[FirmwareBurner]

>the Skeuomorphic one looks absolutely best to me

Same. But how would large teams of UI designers justify their jobs if they'd leave it like that for 10+ years?

[devnullbrain]

Designing all the slow animations that are required for maintaining the kayfabe of shells that depend on desk analogies.

[buran77]

The cause and effect are not so clear cut. Customers also expect something new. That way they feel like they got something new when they have to replace their phone, especially in the "evolution not revolution" phase of a device.

And it's not just phones either. Car companies spend money on retooling to give a model a facelift because people expect it. Sales drop and then pick up again after the facelift because nobody wants to buy something that looks dated from day one.

Manufacturers take cues from each other because once a "modern" trend is set everything else looks dated. Everyone went with flat UIs in a matter of a few years. Cars went with lightbar lights in the past few years too. That's what feels modern now.

As long as a huge part of the market remembers skeuomorphic design and associates it with the early 2000s it will never feel modern so designers stay away from it.

P.S. For me suspenders are still the third best way to keep my pants on (right after "picking the right pants size" and "fastening the buttons"). But nobody wants them these days and it's not a Big Belt conspiracy. They just don't look modern.

[bigstrat2003]

I don't think that's true at all. Customers hate when things change in my experience. It doesn't matter how well intentioned the change is, it's going to be upsetting to people. I really do think it's just that companies are obsessed with changing things, in willful defiance of what their customers want.

[izacus]

Customers hate if things change on their phone, but will absolutely also slam your product and not buy it if it feels "old" and hasn't been changed in a while. Especially media will smear you and tell people to buy the other guy's work if you don't run the redesign threadmill.

People aren't always rational. And "customers" aren't a single group either.

[carlosjobim]

Well if you go straight to the elephant in question - Apple - their laptops have looked essentially the same for 10 years or even 15 years if you squint. Because they found a design that's near perfect. So it doesn't need to be renewed to communicate reliability and quality.

Motorcycles of the classic cut are still being manufactured and sold in massive quantities, even though the design is about 50 years old. Same for them, customers know that the quality is high so it doesn't need to say "new".

And I'm positive that people would line up to buy cars with classic designs if the manufacturers started caring about what customers actually want. Not that I dislike modern car design, but it hit the sweet spot about 5 years ago IMO.

So at least for hardware I think a classic design works well to communicate quality.

And I think we're soon reaching a similar mood in software GUI as well.

[msgodel]

Do they? I used FVWM's MWM theme for 13 years starting from when I was 12 and was pretty happy with it. I've been using CWM for the past 6 years with roughly no changes and am happy with that. Having themes and UI changes forced on you is annoying.

[buran77]

You are using a niche window manager, with a niche theme, on a niche OS. This is almost as far as it gets from being representative of the majority.

[FirmwareBurner]

You're missing the point. The point is that most people are contempt with something once they find it, not about niche UIs.

[Seb-C]

I have similar feelings every time I look at a Windows 95 screenshot: everything is easy to grasp and feels natural. I know immediately what is interactive or not and what is the hierarchy between the different parts of the UI.

Sure, it's not pretty by today's standard, but it's way easier to use IMO.

[frollogaston]

iPhone 5 with iOS 6 was peak, around when Jobs died iirc. Then they changed the design, made the phones too big to fit in pockets, removed headphone jack to sell AirPods, and replaced the home button with some confusing gestures. The keyboard doesn't even work right anymore.

[dvngnt_]

Yeah at the default sizes i couldn't read the glass ones nearly as easily. the icons themselves look like a bad icon pack that i could download on android 14 years ago

[furyofantares]

I really hated all the liquid glass screenshots, and had a bad reaction when I first updated my phone to it. I also updated my macOS, and had a MUCH better reaction to that. And after a few days I really dig it on my phone too.

I thought there was supposed to be a way to add a tint to it though, which I haven't found a setting for, and think I would do if I could find it.

[astrange]

Please don't live on developer betas like that. They're not meant to be stable enough for it.

[furyofantares]

I'm alright man

[astrange]

You're alright if you restart once a day to clear out the memory leaks, maybe.

[furyofantares]

None of my devices has any precious data and I can handle stuff not working perfectly.

It would be annoying if a device got bricked in such a way that it was unrepairable, but I'd still be alright.

[IsTom]

Is it just me or the glass design makes everything look disabled? Why are you supposed think that these are active when they're all gray?

[zapzupnz]

In the Apple ecosystem, grey hasn't meant 'disabled' for years except for glyphs and text. In Liquid Glass, glyphs and text haven't changed their colouration.

[devnullbrain]

I find it surprising that skeumorphism is popular here: the rationale is the opposite of the rationale for power-user desktop UIs.

I suppose it's easy to grok what the newsstand is[1], but I'm not convinced it would matter after the first five minutes.

[1] Because I've seen it in US media, along with the route symbol on the maps icon and the fire hydrants that are in captchas.

[recursivecaveat]

I don't think too many people go hard on skeumorphism itself per se. It's more that the era was associated with desirable properties that seem lacking in the flat era. The primary thing that makes me gravitate to the left screenshot is the clear separation of foreground and background elements with drop-shadows. Icons were more complex and differentiated, less abstract: what is "news" supposed to be now, "game-center" became a bunch of bubbles, "reminders" and "notes" are spiraling into each other, and "passbook/wallet" has become less distinct at each step. Color is being used less and less as well (less true for top-level app icons).

I don't know how well connected it is to the power-user axis, but I would say a characteristic power-user doesn't care that they are looking a somewhat garish and busy collection of colored icons, gradients, bezels, etc, whereas the opposite sensibility favors a minimalist UI for the aesthetics over perhaps ease of locating things. The real opposite of a power-user is not a first-time user, its a non-user. The non-user is not annoyed that they can't find things that are hidden away in secret trays you have to swipe for or such, but they appreciate the resulting saved screen-space.

[hcarvalhoalves]

This looks like a product evolution, but in reverse.