[dakr]

This argument reminds me of theists asking, "without a god, what is there to keep you from being amoral and running around killing people?"

Humans are capable of and do, in fact, act on more than just one or two simplistic external levers. We have agency, understanding, and drive to have empathy and to create.

[msgodel]

Right but the natural state of humanity without real social norms and meta norms is to just form small, violent, relatively unproductive tribes. Civilization doesn't scale without rules.

[kqr]

Of whose natural humanity? Areyou naturally violent and unproductive without coercion? I'm not.

[JackSlateur]

Of course we are (maybe not you as an individual but whatever)

As some french guy said, probably: "De la contrainte nait la créativité"

[msgodel]

I build things, just not things anyone else wants. Other people absolutely do seem to have violent tendencies without coercion.

People don't naturally collaborate the way you see them in the developed world no.

[kqr]

You say people don't collaborate yet cite no source, so I can only assume you mean you wouldn't be collablrative. I can assure you I would be collaborative.

The idea that people in the wild are uncivilised savages is old racist propaganda.

[foxglacier]

You wouldn't exist because part of what makes you who you are is the society you've lived in and its social norms. If you had been born into a tribal society, you'd be tribal - or dead if you refused to cooperate with its culture.

[kqr]

Right but what says that culture would be violent and unproductive, rather than kind and productive? That's what I don't get. Runs counter to what I think is my nature and tbose around me, so I'd expect a position that has considered more evidence from your end.

[jaoane]

Is this a serious comment? It hits all the bases.

[kqr]

All my comments are serious in matter. Some are whimsical in tone. Many are wrong in fact.

I suggest erring on the side of earnesty when replying. The discussions that come out of those threads tend to be more interesting.