[CapricornNoble]

> And idk, but I'm just saying what I feel.

You are saying what you feel, but what do you think?

> The ideologies behind it are based on hate and fear and greed.

Organizations across the political spectrum manipulating the emotions of the populace is exactly how we got to this massively fragmented culture where people feel it's appropriate to hate their fellow citizens.

[spencerflem]

Masked men are grabbing people off the streets and sending them to overseas torture camps in El Salvador with no chance of appeal.

If you think being mad at that is me being manipulated I don't know what to tell you.

[CapricornNoble]

"Being mad" at deportations in and of itself isn't the problem. It's getting to a place, mentally, where you feel that other Americans holding a position in any way contrary to your own can only be insane and/or evil.

Something shattered after 9/11 and especially after Occupy Wall Street, where Americans went from vigorous disagreement over policy implementations despite a common culture (Monday Night Football and apple pie, etc...) to constantly "othering" what should be an in-group identity and painting people as evil incarnate.

[spencerflem]

There's plenty of policy that I can agree to disagree on.

But this is such blantant, needless, willful cruelty.

Gleeful, even.

I've talked to someone with opinions like yours IRL before and one thing we disagreed on is that he was unable to name a single person that he considered to be 'evil'. Do you feel the same way?

[CapricornNoble]

No, I've watched enough narcosicario execution videos to know that there are objectively evil people in the world. These two guys in particular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Trevi%C3%B1o_Morales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heriberto_Lazcano_Lazcano

[spencerflem]

What would you think of people who saw the same videos and cheered it on?

Who went out of their way to enable what they were doing because they liked having a strongman?

I don't think there's any satisfying explanation for people who would do that other than:

- They live in a perceived reality that is vastly different and incompatible with mine. (Ie. insane. Or stupid if you prefer.)

Imagine people seeing those videos and deciding everyone executed were so awful that they deserved their fate and the narcosicario were heroes for administering justice. Or don't believe they're real and that the videos must have been staged or overblown.

- They see what's happening and understand it and approve anyways because they genuinely like seeing people suffer, or greedily think that the victim's suffering will improve their own life. (Ie. evil).

- Some mix of the two

[CapricornNoble]

> What would you think of people who saw the same videos and cheered it on?

I see that all the time online, actually. I think there are a lot of broken-brained, hurt people in the world, who don't know how to channel their emotions in productive manner. I don't think cheerleading sadist edgelords are evil. Actions speak louder than words / anonymous shit-talkers on gore sites.

> Who went out of their way to enable what they were doing because they liked having a strongman?

There's a big difference between "liking a strongman" and flaying people alive. Consider asking "what is the utility people are getting from the strongman?"

> - They live in a perceived reality that is vastly different and incompatible with mine.

To an extent this hits at why many people consider multiculturalism a failure. Are the people that you consider incompatible able to carry on life within their moral framework?

> Imagine people seeing those videos and deciding everyone executed were so awful that they deserved their fate and the narcosicario were heroes for administering justice.

Actually that sometimes happens. The infamous "Ghost Rider" video features a guy getting his face melted off. The backstory, though, is the victim in that video is a rival cartel sicario who threatened to burn alive the daughter of some other cartel boss. I suppose a minority of cartels still have an honor system where they don't go around murdering children....well, this guy got captured and they didn't take too kindly to the threats he had made, so they gave him the exact punishment he was promising to inflict on a child.

I have no sympathy for him, he got what he deserved. That's an outlier case and overall I consider sicarios of all stripes some of the worst humans on the planet....but in Mexico they somehow have some "Robin Hood" appeal in some communities, from what little I've read.