[komali2]

Genuine question: Are you a communist, or perhaps a member of a former communist state? What you're discussing is how Americans perceive the Soviets or the Maoists, it doesn't really align with American values as I grew up understanding them.

"Show me your papers" is not something I think most Americans think is acceptable to be asked of them.

[alex43578]

Excepting “sovereign citizens”, most Americans comply when asked to show ID on a traffic stop, their passport at customs, a drivers license when renting a car, or even ID when swiping a credit card at Walmart.

Do you think all Americans are just running around bartering for corn with bullets? Showing ID when engaging in modern society has become common - except when voting, of course, oddly enough :P

[komali2]

> most Americans comply when asked to show ID on a traffic stop

It's not just sovereign citizens asserting their rights to not identify themselves out of turn to a cop. You're right that cops in America are becoming increasingly authoritarian and trying to intimidate people into giving up their rights, but check out any youtube channel that's essentially just a reuploader for full cop chest cam videos, and almost every encounter with a cop has people pushing back on unlawful search and seizure.

Anyway, your examples are all not exactly good faith, since we were discussing random "show me your papers" stops, which is what ICE has started doing. Needing to prove you have a legal right to drive is relatively uncontroversial. As for showing your passport at a random DHS stop, I've refused every time (over 20 times, I'm a Texan), and everyone I know does as well, and we're certainly not sovereign citizens. "I'm an American citizen, thank you." On my way. They're completely used to it so I know we aren't outliers.

> even ID when swiping a credit card at Walmart.

I've never had to do this lol, not sure what this is about, but again irrelevant when discussing government overreach.

> Do you think all Americans are just running around bartering for corn with bullets?

Ok, this might be a rural American thing, but, yes, many people are basically doing this. Maybe this is just a Texan thing but there's whole ass grey market economies around this.

IDK man maybe we just roll in different circles, maybe it's a redneck thing, but my perception of American values is hot rodding cars so as to escape the cops, not welcoming federal agents into your city to deport your neighbor that watches your kid when you gotta run to the post office real quick, just cause of some frivolous bullshit paperwork.