[mattlondon]

I recently heard that an apartment block near me cannot have automatic emergency lighting or fire sprinklers retrofitted incase there is a fire on a Saturday.

Forget about burning to death or falling down pitch-black stairs and breaking your neck, it is apparently more important that electrical circuits are not energized or a valve is not opened on a saturday!

Absolutely absurd.

I am indifferent to people stringing up wires to lie to themselves. They are not "invisible" and the poles they are on are an eye sore in my part of London and also attract negative attention (e.g. people put palestinian flags or stickers etc on them). But whatever.

What I do have an issue is that someone's religious beliefs are preventing basic fire safety protections for everyone else. We in London/UK are rightly getting a lot of fire protections retrofitted to older apartment blocks because of the Grenfell disaster [1] - this is not some hypothetical thing, its a real problem in older buildings and it disgusts me individuals can veto fundamental basic fire protection for everyone else in their building just because of their own personal beliefs, despite being totally willing to go along with this Eruv sleight-of-hand.

Fire does not respect religion.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

[mrguyorama]

>Forget about burning to death or falling down pitch-black stairs and breaking your neck, it is apparently more important that electrical circuits are not energized or a valve is not opened on a saturday!

This is literally bogus. Nothing in Judaism prevents automated systems! That's the entire point of "sabbath mode" in elevators for example, and it's perfectly normal and usual to set electrical things to work on a timer on the sabbath.

Whoever told you this was utterly wrong and ignorant. There is no rabbi who would have agreed with this, WITHOUT the "you can ignore mitzvot to not die" corollary that others point out.

A fire alarm is a perfectly normal part of a kosher home. Maybe reconsider how much you trust the person who said this to you.

[mattlondon]

But they're not automated are they? If there are e.g. motion-triggered emergency lights, and you move and they come on then BAM! You did some work.

[krisoft]

If I were in a situation like that I would reach out for advice to some religious authority the person in question trusts.

There are widely accepted fairly common sense exceptions for saving lives. [1] That could maybe apply to an automatically activating fire sprinkler. Only someone well versed in the scriptures could say for certain. (And only they would be believed anyway.)

Even about the emergency lighting one can probably find a workaround. For example could it be wired so it is always on via a timer during shabbat?

The point with discussing these with a religious authority is manifold. They might better know how to mediate. In both directions! They might explain to the engineers what is and isn't a sticking point. Similarly they could explain if a given technique is permissible to the person who worries about them. Or alternatively they might have heard solutions others have employed in the past previously.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikuach_nefesh

[mattlondon]

I think I'd prefer that they just say "deal with it - this is real". How many different sets of beliefs do we need to accommodate? How many "mediations" do we need to do to use fire sprinklers?! What if they are incompatible? Whose religion "wins" if one stays one thing but one says the other?

The solution is obvious: religion and beliefs should not be a factor in these sort of things. We in the UK are a secular society with strong separations between state and religion, so this sort of behaviour should be treated for what it is.

[cherryteastain]

> We in the UK are a secular society with strong separations between state and religion

You might want to look up who's the Supreme Governor of the Church of England

[Y_Y]

Ah, but it would be forbidden to start the fire on the Sabbath, so there would be no need for sprinklers!