[SR2Z]

> 1. Most of that party is not advocating for that, those are actually fairly fringe beliefs.

They were literally in Biden's platform. If Biden didn't stand for "most of the party" IDK what to tell you.

> 2. Our fellow capitalistic allies in the west have all of that.

Sort of - but they are also significantly poorer on an individual basis, and the US beats them on important quality-of-life measures (living space, degree attainment, etc.) Many of them have private healthcare systems and require students to pay for college.

> 3. The closest things the dems tried to universal healthcare was the ACA, and despite being obvious legislation, was fought tooth and nail. You had droves of people legitimately arguing that insurers SHOULD be able to drop you for pre-existing conditions. That's how unbelievably fucking propagandized our population is. We're advocating against ourselves every day.

Democrats are not a right-wing party because Trump or "swing voters" exist.

[const_cast]

> They were literally in Biden's platform

Uh, no. Universal healthcare and free college were not in the platform. Expanding the ACA and programs like Medicaid is not universal healthcare. There are almost zero politicians currently advocating we completely abolish private insurers. In addition, loan forgiveness is also not free college.

> Sort of - but they are also significantly poorer on an individual basis, and the US beats them on important quality-of-life measures

And the US also loses on many important quality-of-life measurements. For example, we pay significantly more per person for healthcare while simultaneously having significantly worse healthcare outcomes. Gee, I wonder why?

> Democrats are not a right-wing party because Trump or "swing voters" exist.

My point more so was that the ACA was incredibly reasonable and obvious and still shocking unpopular. Even among the democrats, there were some at the time claiming it went too far.

To this day, the ACA is still a common punching bag for a variety of politicians and constituents.

Ultimately, the democrats are trying to win over moderate and on-the-fence voters. That means they're trying to be slightly more left of the republican party, but not by much. When the republican party is far-right, as it currently is, we then have to ask ourselves: where do we land if we're trying to be slightly left of that? It's not socialism, I'll tell you that.

[SR2Z]

> There are almost zero politicians currently advocating we completely abolish private insurers.

This is not universal healthcare either, and many countries achieve universal coverage without single-payer. I would encourage you to look this up.

> In addition, loan forgiveness is also not free college.

Dude, seriously? Biden proposed free college for families making less than $125k/yr. I'm not gonna shadow box with you, this stuff was literally written down.

You are making an excellent point about the informedness of the average voter, here.

> For example, we pay significantly more per person for healthcare while simultaneously having significantly worse healthcare outcomes. Gee, I wonder why?

Obesity, for the outcomes. The price is good old-fashioned regulatory capture :)

> My point more so was that the ACA was incredibly reasonable and obvious and still shocking unpopular. Even among the democrats, there were some at the time claiming it went too far.

Healthcare is a full FIFTH of all economic activity in the US. The ACA was stuffed full of compromises and carve-outs to get those people on board. There's no faceless villain here, there were plenty of people with skin in the game if you're looking to blame someone.

> That means they're trying to be slightly more left of the republican party, but not by much. When the republican party is far-right, as it currently is, we then have to ask ourselves: where do we land if we're trying to be slightly left of that? It's not socialism, I'll tell you that.

If Bernie Sanders cannot even win with Democrats in the primary process, he would be smoked in the general election. That's basic numeracy. And no, the party did not railroad him - he was actually just not very popular outside of college students. The US is further right than Europe or whatever other "true left" place you want to name, and our politics reflect that.