[alephnerd]

CoL in London or Dublin is comparable to much of the US, but new grad salaries are in the $30-50k range.

The issue is salary expectations in the US are much higher than those in much of Western Europe despite having similar CoL.

And $120k for a new grad is only a tech specific thing. Even new grad management consultants earn $80-100k base, and lower for other non-software roles and industries.

[ponector]

I've seen recently an open position for senior dev with 60k salary and hybrid 3 days per week in London. Insane!

[alephnerd]

Yep. And costs are truly insane in Greater London. Bay Area level housing prices and Boston level goods prices, but Mississippi or Alabama level salaries.

But that's my point - salaries are factored based on labor market demands and comparative performance of your macroeconomy (UK high finance and law salaries are comparable with the US), not CoL.

[lurk2]

> Boston level goods prices

I’ve never been to Boston. Why are the prices high there?

[tilne]

They keep throwing the tea in the harbah

[zelphirkalt]

I mean, seeing an open position does not equal that position ever being filled. It can also likely be a fake position, trying to create the "we are growing and hiring!" impression, or mandated by law to be there, but made artificially worse, because they have someone internally, that they want to move to the position.

[FirmwareBurner]

>but new grad salaries are in the $30-50k range

But in UK an Ireland they get free healthcare, paid vacation, sick leave and labor protections, no?

[alephnerd]

The labor protections are basically ignored (you will be expected to work off the clock hours in any white collar role), and the free healthcare portion gets paid out of employer's pockets via taxes so it comes out the same as a $70-80k base (and associated taxes) would in much of the US.

There's a reason you don't see new grad hiring in France (where they actually try to enforce work hours), and they have a subsequently high youth unemployment rate.

Though even these new grad roles are at risk to move to CEE, where their administrations are giving massive tax holidays on the tune of $10-20k per employee if you invest enough.

And the skills gap I mentioned about CS in the US exists in Weatern Europe as well. CEE, Israel, and India are the only large tech hubs that still treat CS as an engineering disciple instead of as only a form of applied math.

[lazyasciiart]

> The labor protections are basically ignored (you will be expected to work off the clock hours in any white collar role),

I happen to have a sibling in consulting who was seconded from London to New York for a year, doing the same work for the same company, and she found the work hours in NY to be ludicrously long (and not for a significant productivity gain: more required time-at-desk). So there are varying levels of "expected to work off the clock hours".

[0xpgm]

What is the difference between treating CS as an engineering discipline vs a branch of applied math?

[kilpikaarna]

(According to this guy apparently) low level vs algorithms focus. CE or CS basically.

[__turbobrew__]

> free healthcare

I pay over 40% effective tax rate. Healthcare is far from free.

[FirmwareBurner]

But your health problems won't bankrupt you or make you homeless I presume.

[GoatInGrey]

The vast majority of Americans, who carry health insurance, also will not be bankrupted by health problems. Though they will earn far greater amounts of money for their families by working in the US compared to the UK.

[rcpt]

Maybe the EU is different but in the US there's no software engineering union. Our wages are purely what the market dictates.

Think they're too high? You're free to start a company and pay less.