[harrall]

I know friends in a similar boat.

Ultimately you can get very far if you are naturally talented technically and socially.

But if you are normal like most of us, you are lacking in one or more areas and going to school (or attending conferences or maintaining a popular resource) can be one of those ways to shore up one of your “less natural” skills, but no step is strictly required and not everything works for everyone.

[RHSeeger]

Indeed, going to school for a degree in a programming related field (Computer Science, Computer Engineering, Software Development; whatever) is also much more likely to leave you with a broad knowledge about topics in the field (different algorithms, things worth considering when developing code/architecture, etc). Yes, you can achieve that same level of knowledge with self-study, but a lot of (most) people won't; because it requires going above and beyond for most self-study "curriculum".

"But if you are normal like most of us", you'll wind up a more well rounded developer with a college education.

[coderatlarge]

“The Federal Reserve Bank of New York released data on unemployment rates for recent college graduates (ages 22 to 27). The bank found that philosophy had an unemployment rate of 3.2%, less than computer science’s 6.1%, though computer science was more highly compensated.”

https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/college-majors-wi...

[shagie]

Unemployment vs underemployment I believe is the missing item here.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:... - this is the source, and has both unemployment and underemployment.

CS has a 6.1% unemployment rate and a 16.5% underemployment rate.

Philosophy has is at 3.2% unemployment and a 41.2% underemployment rate.

The philosophy major doesn't have their sights set on a $150k new grad salary at a big tech company out of college. They're flipping burgers or working as a business person somewhere.

This can be seen on various reddit computer science related career advice spots where people are holding out for the perfect software development job for years rather than getting a job somewhere. They're sending out (poorly crafted) resumes by the hundreds to jobs that their resume gives no indication that they're qualified for (or even read the posting) and ignoring the "we want to hire someone with some work ethic - bagging groceries and having a supervisor who can say that 'yes, Pat shows up on time each day sober'" is something is useful.

They're refusing to consider help desk roles - and when they do apply for those roles, its with a resume that points out how they're skilled at JavaScript and have published a module to npm.

They're refusing to apply to the job at state government that lists $650,000 - $80,000 for entry level position because that's not the job they saw themselves getting.

The CS majors are holding out and not getting jobs that are "beneath" them. The philosophy majors are getting any job that pays the bills.

[ghaff]

I generally agree with your comment though I'm not sure what underemployment in philosophy even looks like. (And I could probably say the same of a lot of liberal arts.) Yes, it's not working at McDonald's But it could mean not making a whole lot more working at a publishing house.

[shagie]

Underemployment is working at a job that doesn't require that degree.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:...

> What is your definition of underemployment?

> The definition of underemployment is based on the kinds of jobs held by college graduates. A college graduate working in a job that typically does not require a college degree is considered underemployed. This analysis uses survey data from the U.S. Department of Labor’s Occupational Information Network (O*NET) Education and Training Questionnaire to help determine whether a bachelor’s degree is required to perform a job. The articles cited above describe the approach in detail.

> Some additional research that utilizes these data include “Working as a Barista After College Is Not as Common as You Might Think” (Liberty Street Economics).

https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2016/01/workin...

[ghaff]

I read it as a little more general than that.

>A college graduate working in a job that typically does not require a college degree is considered underemployed.

So, it's not just about philosophy majors working in a job that doesn't require a philosophy degree but about any college grad working in a job that doesn't require a degree--which according to this thread presumably includes developer jobs but that's a bit of a stretch :-) given that it often requires a degree.

[shagie]

My read on it is that it doesn't require that degree.

Working in a job that requires a college degree (but doesn't care what it is) would be underemployed for anyone with a degree... even though it requires a degree.

The "does it require a degree" is likely based on the BLS definition for the job... even if people say that you can get it without.

Developer - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Computer support - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Food server - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/food-an...

[whoopdedo]

I expect there's some selection bias at play. If you're taking a philosophy major in college it's likely you already feel confident in your post-graduation career, so can study things that you like. Whereas if you're in a CS track it's because whether you get a job depends on getting a degree. The student studying philosophy is in school as an alternative to work. The STEM major is in school as a prerequisite to work.

[brewdad]

Or Philosophy is usually a path to Law School on the professional path or a PhD on the research/academia path. In both cases, many/most of those 22-27 year olds are still in school and thus not counted as unemployed.

[ghaff]

I don't know how true it still is with law being, to a fair degree, perhaps primarily a good career path for those who can land at white-shoe firms and federal court clerkships. But I've known a lot of people who drifted into law school from liberal arts and related because they just didn't have great job prospects. And quite a few didn't even end up practicing law.