[weird_trousers]

Very good news!

I believe that Microsoft does not care about Gaming those days, so it is definitely time for Valve to jump in and win some percentages in the market.

We know for sure that Windows shares will not drop drastically based on this move, and that the tendency will progress among years (not months). Now, we have to make sure that Valve is not evil... and I do not believe they are angels they claim since the beginning. To me Valve is like Google was in beginning of 2000s : invest on open-source, have a good fanbase, ... and once you have a significant percentage of the market share / users then you can move evil.

[coffeebeqn]

I think they’re showing us how mature user-facing Linux in 2025 really is. With a little focus and investment on the UX for the end user on top of the open source core OS it has already beat any console OS by a mile.

[Manfred]

SteamOS actually does the opposite.

It does not use any of the popular desktop environments (unless you drop into Desktop Mode). It heavily curates hardware, kernel, and drivers to keep the platform from breaking and install with sane (performance) defaults for gaming. It doesn't rely on a common package manager.

Beside a Steam Deck I also use a Linux PC for gaming and even with 25 years of Linux experience I still struggle sometimes to keep hardware acceleration working after a driver update, sometimes spending an evening of troubleshooting instead of gaming. Certain parts of the desktop environment sometimes lock up to the point where I have to SSH into the PC to fix it. It's like owning a vintage car in a certain way.

And yes, I prefer all of that over the Windows experience, but it's not seamless and not simple enough for anyone to just jump into.

[Gigachad]

They have a custom window manager because they had to build a controller friendly UI from scratch since one didn’t exist already. Not because existing DEs are broken.

Their package management also isn’t that exotic. It’s a lot like Fedora Silverblue where the OS is an immutable image and user software is installed with Flatpak.

[Manfred]

I'm not saying existing desktop environments are broken, my point is that SteamOS does not show that KDE / Gnome / etc are "mature" because it doesn't actually use them. In the same way that we know all dogs are good dogs but my house doesn't show that because there is no dog here.

[selivanovp]

Quit using Arch. Normal linux distros have no such problems.

[Manfred]

That's a pretty weak argument given that I use Pop!_OS, Ubuntu, and Debian and have had these issues with all of them.

You can look for things like "nvidia drm broken" and find thousands of threads of people all types of problems spanning decades, meaning; old and new. Some of them are pure driver issues caused by NVIDIA but that doesn't matter because we're not trying to assign blame, but we're trying to see if the ecosystem is "mature".

[Ygg2]

Linux biggest problem as a consumer OS was rarely tech and mostly just the schizoid amount of options, and lack of consensus on what to use.

In essence Linux suffers from a Lisp curse. Whenever two OS nerds disagreed on something they made their own slightly different distro.

This means wasted effort on multiple DE, window managers, app flavors, installed libraries. To this day, almost no two distros can agree on baseline libraries every Linux must have.

[ekianjo]

> Linux biggest problem as a consumer OS was rarely tech and mostly just the schizoid amount of options, and lack of consensus on what to use.

It's only a problem if you think it is. In practice I use at least 3 or 4 different distros on a daily basis and I never have any issue juggling between them. For most of the typical use cases it does not even matter, and on the desktop side flatpak resolves many issues.

[Ygg2]

> It's only a problem if you think it is.

No. It's a problem, if you as distro maker support non-technical consumers as well.

Imagine troubleshooting Windows but you also have to figure out which DE, WM, libraries the user updated and so on.

> desktop side flatpak resolves many issues

You mean AppImage, Snap, etc.

[tuna74]

The point of a distro is to select what you support. SteamOS only has one DE etc.

[Ygg2]

Except the user-base wants infinite customizability, and users are often to mess with it. And getting the code to just work together nicely is a nightmare, where OS updates can break drivers, forcing you to try to jerry rig a solution that partially works.

[spookie]

I love how in this context people call it wasted effort while in other areas is just competition.

[ashdnazg]

Competition works because the more successful a company is, the more resources it gets (money from the customers).

If a free Linux distribution is more successful, its resources don't scale accordingly.

[Ygg2]

Yeah, duplicating/triplicating/n-cating bugs, feature development and support effort, really paid off for the Linux desktop ecosystem. Which year will be the year of the Linux desktop? One, when we get brain to brain communication and abandon desktops entirely?

[Affric]

Cooperation/Symbiosis: win-win

Predation: win-lose

Competition: lose-lose

This is how dynamically coupled systems work.

[tuna74]

Linux is not a full OS. It is "only" an OS kernel. Linux can't replace Windows. Fedora or Ubuntu can.

[xtracto]

You missed GNU!

[tuna74]

I don't get your point.

[xtracto]

Haha, you may be too young I'm sorry; it was meant to be a joke.

Back in the 90s when linux came out and started getting traction, Richard Stallman was adamant that people should call the operating system GNU/Linux , because Linux was only the kernel, but mlst of the userland utilities were the GNU software (which were planning to make a full OS like GNU/Hurd).

Some people made fun of that, and I was just kind of paying the joke.

[akagusu]

The biggest problem of Linux as a consumer OS is that Linux is not even an OS, it’s just a kernel.

[Ekaros]

By in essence using none of desktop Linux... Steam Deck shows just how bad things are. Regular users will spend their entire time in very limited application launching other applications. Distant way from any traditional personal computer model.

[tuna74]

There is no "desktop Linux". There is desktop infrastructure and Desktop environments that run ON Linux.

[akagusu]

Please, don’t tell this. People are not ready for the TRUE.

[BlueTemplar]

Spending billions to buy Activision-Blizzard-King ? I haven't heard about Microsoft giving up on Xbox ? And in the last few months Windows 10 has started nagging (via notifications!) about Game Pass.

Valve is a private company led by Gabe Newell. Once he's gone and Valve goes public, Valve will become evil too. And people who relied too much on Steam will be sorry.

[nfg]

> I believe that Microsoft does not care about Gaming those days.

I’d be interested in hearing you expand on that!

Disclaimer: I work there :-)

[petepete]

I suspect it's not about Gaming not working well on Windows but that gamers are likely enthusiasts and Windows 11:

* is difficult/impossible to install without tying up a Microsoft Account

* has ads baked in

* is trying to force feed everyone Copilot when most people just don't care

* comes preinstalled with bloat

It's a pity. There's a great OS hiding in there somewhere. A consumer version of LTSC would probably make gamers very happy.

[charcircuit]

>is difficult/impossible to install without tying up a Microsoft Account

Gamers probably already have a Microsoft account as its required for games like Minecraft or services like Gamepass. A Microsoft account is needed for Windows Hello to function.

>has ads baked in

Do you have an example. I think it's more likely the user installed malware if ads are showing up unexpectedly. Gamers are more likely to install malware like this and Windows's security is not good enough to stop it especially when gamers use admin accounts and disable uac.

>is trying to force feed everyone Copilot when most people just don't care

How is it being forced? I haven't seen it on my machine. I assume people who don't care could just ignore it or disable the feature if they don't want it. Being able to look up help for games using Copilot seems like a feature that gamers may find valuable.

>comes preinstalled with bloat

Bloat is subjective. Actual performance issues caused by unneeded things running while in games would be. The mere existence of unused pteinstalled applications doesn't necessarily cause problems to gamers.

[petepete]

> Gamers probably already have a Microsoft account as its required for games like Minecraft or services like Gamepass. A Microsoft account is needed for Windows Hello to function.

If I want to use these things let me opt in.

> Do you have an example [of ads]

There are hundreds or thousands of articles on the subject. Here's one.

https://uk.pcmag.com/migrated-3765-windows-10/151992/microso...

> How is it being forced?

Maybe force was too strong a word, but 'incessantly nagged regardless of previous rejection' sums it up nicely

https://tech.yahoo.com/general/articles/microsofts-latest-co...

> comes preinstalled with bloat

If I install an operating system and there's a Netflix logo in the application menu when I don't havw a Netflix account and was never asked if I wanted it, it's bloat.

When people have taken the time to write debloating scripts it's fair to say some people think it's bloated.

https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat

If you enjoy using it don't let my high standards stop you.

[charcircuit]

>If I want to use these things let me opt in.

This is a case of whether the device should be secure by default or if the user should have to opt in to security. Microsoft has chosen the position that account security should be there by default which is why it's not opt in for using an Microsoft account. I think this is a reasonable design decision to make.

>Here's one.

An app store recommendation is not an ad. The OS is helping the user find content that they may be looking for. It isn't an ad surface where companies are bidding to show up for keywords. The word ad is used by the article to stir drama and drive clicks.

>If I install an operating system and there's a Netflix logo in the application menu when I don't havw a Netflix account and was never asked if I wanted it, it's bloat.

But there are plenty of people who do have a Netflix account and Netflix showing up there is helping them accomplish something they want to do with their new computer. You have to understand that most people are not that good with computers and surfacing these things in more places can legitimately help them out.

[tauoverpi]

I'm sorry if I seem completely out of the loop as I haven't used windows at all for at least a decade at this point.

> This is a case of whether the device should be secure by default or if the user should have to opt in to security. Microsoft has chosen the position that account security should be there by default which is why it's not opt in for using an Microsoft account. I think this is a reasonable design decision to make.

Opt-out security is the better model to have but I don't see how security features require a microsoft account to function. This isn't the case on any other operating system as security is not bound to having an account for some external service. Rather this seems like an artificial limitation that microsoft has created to push other microsoft services on the user as someone that only uses windows to play steam games that don't use a microsoft account have no use for one regardless if they use windows or not.

Can you point to a particualr security feature that would stop functioning and that needs to have an account and that couldn't use a hardware security key for 2FA (if 2FA is a requirement)?

> But there are plenty of people who do have a Netflix account and Netflix showing up there is helping them accomplish something they want to do with their new computer. You have to understand that most people are not that good with computers and surfacing these things in more places can legitimately help them out.

Helping users use the app store which the majority are capable of should be sufficient unless the app store is so complex that it's practically unusable for the majority. The majority are also capable of using phones to install games, netflix, and other applications without having to be tech savy to do so.

Those users which aren't capable of operating the app store (usually the elderly) either have family that help them set things up or simply aren't your customers as they don't own computers.

[petepete]

> The OS is helping the user find content that they may be looking for

If that's not an ad I don't know what is!

I hate it and won't use a computer that does it.

[Gigachad]

Last time I used windows I kept getting pop up ads for Microsoft teams and their cloud storage product.

[dartharva]

This honestly reads like a troll comment, or I at least hope it is. The notion that someone would actually defend Windows 11's vices scares me.

[weird_trousers]

Reducing costs in Xbox and development partners, the state of the Xbox games submission (and the SDK... as a game engine developer it is the worst and the buggiest of all three major consoles), and finally all the communication and the investment in (crappy) AI from Microsoft and the large reduction of investment in gaming from them.

I know this comes from the Microsoft management side, and not from the devs.

[ekianjo]

When something is a default, it's not by choice. So people play on Windows because they have a computer running Windows, not because it's made for that.

[SleepyMyroslav]

disclaimer - I work in gamedev. It certainly looks like the only thing that has any attention to it is Copilot/AI.

tbh, I don't think community here actually cares about games or technical details to go through lists of topics :)

[owebmaster]

> Disclaimer: I work there :-)

Business dark patterns aren't bugs nor something you can change :)

[bitmasher9]

> I believe that Microsoft does not care about Gaming those days

Have you seen the Microsoft Merger and Acquisition list for the last ten years? They are spending money like they care about gaming.