[danaris]

Except that "America" is not monolithic.

America is currently a victim of Trump's batshit insane policies. A plurality of Americans voted for Trump, but not all of even that percentage actually support or desire what is happening now.

Most Americans are not in favor of this, so saying that "America is doing this to itself" rather than "this is happening to America" feels like it ignores all those people who very much do not want this.

[iAMkenough]

Most Americans could ask their elected representatives to represent them. And those elected representatives in the Senate and House could do something about most Americans not being represented on this issue.

But they're not, so they are doing it to themselves.

[krapp]

>Most Americans are not in favor of this, so saying that "America is doing this to itself" rather than "this is happening to America" feels like it ignores all those people who very much do not want this.

And saying "this is happening to America" ignores all those people who very much do. Trump's election wasn't an act of God nor an unavoidable consequence of physical laws. People voted for him.

Between the two, it's more correct to say "America is doing this to itself." If I stab myself in the leg, it's still a conscious and willful act on my part even though my leg wasn't holding the knife. It didn't just "happen."

[FirmwareBurner]

>America is currently a victim of Trump's batshit insane policies.

You're not a victim over your voters' democratic choice. If I choose to cut my nose to spite my face, I'm not a victim. Why are people so bad about taking accountability over their actions? It's always someone else's fault.

>Most Americans are not in favor of this

Most American voters voted for this, this is how democracy works: sometimes your candidate wins, sometimes the other candidate wins, and you have to just suck it up and live with it till the next elections, this isn't being a victim. Rinse and repeat.

[danaris]

a) I am currently a victim of other people's choices. This isn't me cutting my nose off to spite my face: this is a group of people deciding "we will now all cut off our noses", and the ones who don't want to being held down and cut against our will.

b) Again, it was a plurality of Americans, not a majority, who voted for Trump. And, again, polls increasingly show a majority of Americans disapproving of what Trump is doing.

Acting like this is just "politics as usual" is a big part of what got us into this absolute mess.

Acting like this is just "politics as usual" now, after all the stuff he's already done that is blatantly unconstitutional, illegal, and treasonous, is pretty clearly based on some motivated reasoning.

So, which is it? Do you support his rise to dictator, or do you just enjoy shitting on people who are experiencing a horrifying disaster that will destroy their country and their entire lives as they know them?

[FirmwareBurner]

>a) I am currently a victim of other people's choices.

You're not a victim in a democracy when your candidate looses and have to put up with the policies you don't like but which are popular with the majority of the voting population. It's the feature of democracy, not a bug. Grow up.

>Acting like this is just "politics as usual"

IT IS politics as usual. Always has been when you look at history. The difference is now you have Twitter and social media to rile you up for the sake of monetizing engagement. Lay off social media and your TDS will heal itself naturally.

> Do you support his rise to dictator

As someone born in a dictatorship, you have no idea what a dictatorship actually is. If you were in a dictatorship, a black Volga would show up at your door and arrest you for your previous comment. You don't have the right to complain in a dictatorship, let alone to vote.

[cycomanic]

> >a) I am currently a victim of other people's choices. > > You're not a victim in a democracy when your candidate looses and have to put up with the policies you don't like but which are popular with the majority of the voting population. It's the feature of democracy, not a bug. Grow up. > > >Acting like this is just "politics as usual" > > IT IS politics as usual. Always has been when you look at history. The difference is now you have Twitter and social media to rile you up for the sake of monetizing engagement. Lay off social media and your TDS will heal itself naturally. > > > Do you support his rise to dictator > > As someone born in a dictatorship, you have no idea what a dictatorship actually is. If you were in a dictatorship, a black Volga would show up at your door and arrest you for your previous comment. You don't have the right to complain in a dictatorship, let alone to vote.

Funny that you mention it, this is exactly what's is happening.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwit...

[FirmwareBurner]

Left wing propaganda if such an event makes a dictatorship. Deporting foreign political agitators and aggressors who break the terms of their visa is just proper law enforcement, not dictatorship. Hope to see more of this.

[Tadpole9181]

[flagged]

[FirmwareBurner]

>What an utterly absurd statement.

And comparing the election of Trump to the election of Hitler is not absurd? I'll end this conversation here due to you not being willing to argue in good faith. Please have a read on the history of WW1, Weimar Republic and the circumstances that led to Hitler getting elected, including the election process, then maybe you can stop bringing up the Hitler every time someone mentions Trump.

[Tadpole9181]

[flagged]

[sillyfluke]

I don't see why you don't apply some good faith reasoning for the other side to see the poster's point. Looking at it from a broader perspective, it's perfectly possible to be a victim of a Biden admin and a Trump admin. If you went back in time and voted for the other guy but end up getting screwed in some other or same way by the other candidate -- which is very likely -- you could easily claim that you're a victim no matter who you vote for. Cause at the end of the day you're essentially voting for the lesser of two evils. And if they both are "evil" in some form then it wouldn't be out of place for you to suffer in one context or another no matter who the president is.

That's why voting against the incumbent is a thing. You're not voting for Trump, you're voting against Biden hoping (not knowing) Trump will be better, because if things are shitty already, voting for Biden seems like doing the same thing and expecting different results.

And viewing Americans as victims also has a pragmatic benefit because you allow people who have buyer's remorse to speak up about the things they regret about the guy they voted for.

>as someone who was born in a dictatorship

Since you were born in one, it stands to reason you didn't see a country drift towards one in realtime. It can very much be a boiling the frog sort of thing depending on how the pieces on the board are arranged.

[FirmwareBurner]

>you didn't see a country drift towards one in realtime

What are history books for then?

I live in a country that's doing that, and it's not like the US.

[const_cast]

> TDS will heal itself naturally.

Pointing out what Trump is doing and saying, verbatim, is not some type of insanity.

You speak of a lack of accountability and in the same breath denounce reality. You ask us to subscribe to a delusion because it's more convenient.

[Kon-Peki]

> Again, it was a plurality of Americans, not a majority, who voted for Trump. And, again, polls increasingly show a majority of Americans disapproving of what Trump is doing.

People who are eligible to vote but do not are giving an implicit vote in favor of whoever wins. There is no sense in thinking of it an any other way. (As an aside, you can also think of them as cowards who are unwilling to take a stand and choose the least bad option. Something all adults do on a regular basis).

So sure, if you count children and felons it may not be an absolute majority. On the other hand, you’re assuming that they would have voted for the person you voted for had they had that chance.

[palmotea]

> You're not a victim over your democratic choice. If I choose to cut my nose to spite my face, I'm not a victim. Why are people so bad about taking accountability over their actions? It's always someone else's fault.

Americans are a victim of being given shitty choices.

Democrats like to pretend they were so much better than Trump that the choice was obvious, but they basically spent four years doing dishonest things like attempting to gaslight the American public on things like Biden's age. They need to take responsibility for their loss, instead putting their energy into blaming others (including scapegoats). But it's so much easier to try to climb back into a bubble.

[FirmwareBurner]

>Americans are a victim of being given shitty choices.

Choices aren't being "given". You're making it sound like Americans are being forced to choose some sort of alien invaders and not peers cut from the cloth of their own citizens.

In a democracy the politicians are a direct reflection of society. If Trump says "drill baby drill" and everyone applauds, you can't claim otherwise

[palmotea]

>> Americans are a victim of being given shitty choices.

> Your making it sound like Americans are being forced to choose some sort of alien invaders and not peers of their own citizens. In democracy the politicians are a direct reflection of society.

Come on. Do you remember 2024? Biden was anointed, then Harris. In 2016 it was Clinton (so something had to be done about Sanders). Those choices weren't made by democracy, they were made by the Democratic party.

[palmotea]

> A plurality of Americans voted for Trump, but not all of even that percentage actually support or desire what is happening now.

> Most Americans are not in favor of this, so saying that "America is doing this to itself" rather than "this is happening to America" feels like it ignores all those people who very much do not want this.

But it's cathartic for Trump's political opponents to blame Americans, so they do so. IIRC, they're still less popular than Trump.

They felt entitled to win since they think he is bad. Instead of blaming others they really need to spend their time figuring out why they lost to someone so flawed, and make the difficult (including ideological) changes to fix their electoral issues. Especially since last time they seemed to genuinely believe he was dangerous, but refused to pull their heads out of their asses to respond to that danger.