[Nicole060]

I own an iPad and I don't really consider it as a desktop computer replacement. I can't program on it. I can't do serious photo editing on it. It's just a consumption device. I like it but those stories about iPad being general purpose computers are seriously getting on my nerve, because as someone who uses one everyday, it's still far from being anything like it, and I seriously hate Apple restrictions and consider moving to an android tablet, I saw the community there even made an IDE that can make true Android apps in Java, from within Android.

If the future of computing is about being dictated on what I can and cannot do on a device I bought by Apple, I'd rather not see that future. I regret having bought an iPad instead of waiting for something like the Nexus 7. I'm actually going to buy the Nexus once Google decides to sell it in my country but it means I've wasted money on my iPad.

[ricardobeat]

There are a dozen code editors, and a few pretty decent photo editors too. It's as much of a "consumption device" as you want it to be.

The iPad is a general computing device, it just has a friendly interface that most people can understand. Is an automatic car 'limited' because you can't change gears manually?

Also, jailbreak. You can use shell all the time if you want to.

[Nicole060]

"There are a dozen code editors"

You can't be serious. You can't import or export code. I don't even consider that fit for a toy because even toys are better when you can share them.

" and a few pretty decent photo editors too"

The way the iPad works compared to android makes it a huge PITA. If you use itunes to import photos from your computers they're going to get resized, and for some reason, you can't delete imported photos on your ipad unless you delete them from your computer and sync with itunes. How about that, for a closed device ? You can't delete content on the tablet unless you do a sync on your computer ? Complete madness.

"The iPad is a general computing device, it just has a friendly interface that most people can understand. Is an automatic car 'limited' because you can't change gears manually?"

Yes. If we race the same car, you with automatic and I with manual gears, I'm going to beat you. For that matter you must be an American, because here in Europe most of the cars sold aren't automatic. No one here believes that getting an automatic car is an upgrade. And having a friendly interface is no excuse for restricting what I can do with the device, Android proved you can do both : give a friendly interface and still be friendly toward those who want to do more than browse the web.

Android has the potential to replace computers, with time. The iPad is a shitty walled garden where you can't even erase a photo you transferred from your computer. I regret having bought this device. But since Apple products tend to keep their value well on the aftermarket because of all the fanboys, selling the iPad 2 will actually bring me enough money to buy a Nexus 7 without having to spend a single cent more. I pity the poor sod who's going to buy that crap, though.

I own three Apple products and I am sick with their antics. No more.

[ricardobeat]

What do you mean can't import/export? Most editors integrate with Dropbox, iCloud, FTP, webdav, some even have a server you can use over a local network, and you can always use vi(m)/nano/whatever over ssh. (are you thinking of Codea? that is a toy).

> You can't delete content on the tablet unless you do a sync on your computer

No idea what you're talking about, I manage all content on the iPad/iPhone without touching iTunes, and import photos directly from my dslr using an SD adapter.

I'm not American, where I live most cars are manual. To turn over your argument: 99.9% of the people aren't race drivers.

Anyway, I was just pointing out that there are options, you already have your opinion.

[Nicole060]

> What do you mean can't import/export? Most editors integrate with Dropbox, iCloud, FTP, webdav, some even have a server you can use over a local network, and you can always use vi(m)/nano/whatever over ssh. (are you thinking of Codea? that is a toy).

Oh you meant those text editors that can't run code ? I'm not thinking of coda, but anything that can actually run code, like the Python interpreters on iOS. You can't import or export code with those. The fact is, Apple restricts what you can do on your tablet. You can't edit code, run it on your tablet and export or import some. Why would I want to use a text editor on the tablet without being able to run code on it ? I might as well take my laptop instead.

> No idea what you're talking about, I manage all content on the iPad/iPhone without touching iTunes, and import photos directly from my dslr using an SD adapter.

If you transfer them through iTunes they get resized and they can't be removed from the tablet until the next syncing. And I don't see why I would want to use the SD adapter, the first place I'm going to put my photos in is the real computer where I'll develop the raw files with Lightroom and the SD cards are immediately erased for the next shoot. I only put my photos on the iPad to show them around but I find it a pain that I can't even manage it from inside the iPad, deleting and creating albums from iTunes imports. That's typical Apple crap you have to deal with here.

Apple always behaved like assholes starting from their first mp3 players. Where the competitors allowed you to just copy your files over the file system, no big deal, with iPods you have to go through iTunes which is a slow piece of crap for windows users. ( I use windows on my desktop )

Jailbreaking could do the trick but then it means a risk if you send your ipad under warranty, and it means lagging behind updates (some of which could be important, like security updates. It can be risky, look at the fact that an exploit allowed jailbreaking through the web browser in the past.. the same exploit could've been used by anyone to pwn your iPad, so you better install all the updates as soon as they're out.)

I can remember Mark Pilgrim making the same kind of point about OS X in the past, and why he switched to linux, and OS X was far less oppressive than iOS. http://daringfireball.net/2006/06/and_oranges

The whole proprietary database crap is the reason why I will never use iPhoto. I want a photo manager that lets me use the filesystem without much constraints, and a full compatibility with IPTC keywords and all the other metadata standards. I want something I can transfer to a different operating system, or use with a different photo management software without much fuss. I'll have none of that walled garden crap, and that walled crap was already there in OS X with software like iPhoto. For people who want free as in beer software and don't want to pay for something like Lightroom, Picasa is a much better choice [than iPhoto]. Or Darktable for linux users. I actually prefer Picasa's interface over Lightroom, too bad it lacks the advanced features, because Picasa is very friendly for someone who uses the file system. Folder hierarchies are portable and stable over time. IPTC, id3 and XMP metadata are portable and stable. Proprietary databases are not.

I like a lot of things about apple products. I own a MBA in part because it has the best trackpad in the market for example. But there is also too much to hate for me to turn a blind eye to their policies anymore, I just got sick with their software and absolutely can't stand it. The next time I'm in the market for a laptop computer, I'll take the inferior hardware and flimsy software, I'll even bear with stuff like bad suspend, if it means that I'm finally freed from the Apple jackasses. There is nothing compelling me to buy a mac if I can't stand the few mac exclusives and mostly use multiplatform software on it. Guess the Apple brainwashing never worked on me.

It is very obvious that Apple is now nearly exclusively catering to complete consumers and that anyone who uses apple products for advanced stuff are byproducts rather than one of the target audience. They dropped their XServe line, so no more pro servers. Their Mac Pro towers are outdated and they have the audacity to sell them with absolutely shitty graphic cards.. considering the amount you spend for a Mac Pro it's a total rip off. They pissed off a portion of their pro market with Final Cut X, and they pissed off the amateurs who liked the advanced features of the previous iMovie. They dropped their stewardship over OS X java, which is now a good thing because they always took a long time to put out newer versions of the runtime. They are lagging behind a lot on OpenGL support. With Apple, they tell you to jump and you just answer back "How high ?".

The writing was on the wall the day they changed their name from Apple Computer to Apple. They're now making most of their profit off their locked down smartphones. OS X was already kind of my way or the highway, but now with iOS they are reinforced in their belief that they can push the mindset further, which is why we got the appstore on ML, sandboxing issues, gatekeeper, stupid skeuomorphic apps from iOS and full screen apps that behave in a way that make switching between them uncannily like multitasking on the iPad. They're turning my MBA into a gigantic iPad. I can't wait for OS X 10.9 with Gatekeeper always on rather than optional. I wouldn't be surprised if 10.8 was only transitional, to give app developers some time to adjust.

[pooriaazimi]

I see what your problem is. You use windows. And iTunes, which is merely a bad piece of software on Mac, is disgusting on Windows. It's years behind the Mac version (which is not a good app by itself).

Every time I have to setup somebody's iPad on Windows I feel sick for hours afterwards. iTunes is slow, syncing with Photos folder and Outlook sucks, and the overall experience is dreadful.

But I disagree that filesystem is better than a database that the app uses to keeps track of stuff for you. But again, if I were a Windows/Linux user I would've said the same thing. Things are much better if you live completely in the Apple platform (Mac/iPhone/iPad). In my opinion, you must have the whole package, or none of them at all. If you're not a Mac user, then an Android tablet might be the better choice (they were absolute shit when the iPad came out, but are pretty decent right now).

[Nicole060]

I am a mac user too, but I just own a laptop, rather than a whole ecosystem of iMac+macbook+*. My desktop computer is a home built tower.

And yes, the android tablets were absolute shit when the iPad came out, that's why I didn't buy an android tablet even though I was already kinda getting fed up with Apple at the time. I just think I should've waited for a while, wait for something like the newer, Android 4.0 Transformer and now the Nexus 7, rather than immediately buy an iPad 2. I'm torn between the two, the Transformer sounds closer to my ideal, with stuff like a built-in card reader, but the portability of a 7" sounds good to me too.

You're admitting that iTunes isn't really that great even on a Mac. And think about it. It's the only way to put mp3s on an iPhone or iPad (unless you bought everything on the store). I'd rather they just give me a Mass Storage interface to the file system than force me to use some crap proprietary software. iTunes sucks partly because they have to keep it cross platform, meaning it's never going to be a full modern cocoa app on the mac and it's never going to feel right on Windows either and mac libraries are not known for being great for cross platforms apps compared to Qt or Java SWT.

Even if I were to be a full mac user I would oppose this idea of my-way-or-the-highway simply because I find it crucial to be able to QUICKLY move from a platform to the other without any fuss whatsoever if you change your mind or anything like that, and it's something only standard metadata and filesystems hierarchies can give you. I was a long time linux user until I made the mistake of building a desktop that was kinda incompatible, particularly the ATI Radeon that crashes a lot with Gnome 3. It wasn't a pain to come back to windows, and it's never been a pain to switch from Mac OS X on my laptop to windows on my desktop. And I use Rsync to make mirrors on an external usb drive of my data, a tool that works on the three platforms rather well. I have nothing against an heterogeneous environment and I'm not married to a particular OS or software. I'm not a fanboy of any one of them, I use what works best for me at a particular time and particular hardware I bought. Mac laptops are really nice, their trackpad rocks, the suspend works good, they offer good battery use, the unibody case feels solid and not creaky even if you hold it a bit wrong..

I like a lot of things from Apple, I just wish they were actually more open and not just in the open source sense of working on projects like LLVM, but open in the way their devices interact, open in the protocols, open in the way metadata is stocked and shared.. the Mail.app for example used to implement mbox, and one of the things that pushed Mark Pilgrim over the edge was the conversion to a proprietary format. MS loses too on that particular example (mail), but they're getting more open these days with file formats, and while the Open XML process hasn't been without mistakes it's still miles better than the state of iWork. iWork can't even open ODF files, while Microsoft created a plugin for Office that lets it import and export to ODF. I recall Office 2010 supports it natively.

Apple just doesn't give a shit. I don't care as much for "free as in freedom" software as I care for "open protocols", "open file formats", "open metadata". Make closed source software if you want, and sell it for as much as you want, but as long as you support openness, I'll give you the thumbs up. Microsoft made great strides toward this. The way they worked with mono developers was also exemplary and C# truly became crossplatform apart from the GUI libraries themselves (and it's still possible to do so with the old WinForms) and Mono never really lagged that far away when it came to language features and major APIs, and they actually submitted the language to a standard body, and the specifications are free to download, unlike ISO specs. It's hard to think of Microsoft as the great evil the way lots of nerds did, because compared to Apple, they're novices, amateurs, a gentle brand of evil. If Apple had the same stranglehold on PCs the way Microsoft has presently it would literally be a NIGHTMARE.

I refuse the thought of marrying myself to a platform, so I'll never buy into something that locks me in. Hell, even free software could theoretically lock me in if it didn't support stuff like IPTC tags, file system hierarchies and built its own proprietary database for everything to take the photo management example again. Thank god the open source community tends to value a certain form of pragmatism and just follow the path of least resistance rather than "innovate" by building their own crap.

[ricardobeat]

On jailbreaking: no, it doesn't void your warranty, and it's pretty easy to restore the OS if you're afraid.

Get an Android tablet and live with it for a few months, then see what you think of the iPad.