[throwpoaster]

I think this type of question is, roughly, backwards.

If you start by building a project _for_ some group of people you do it by talking to them, getting requirements, building, demoing, iterating, etc. Promotion, in this model, is a continuous process of community interaction. You're building distribution.

To build and _then_ begin promoting, which is how I have historically done it too, is to rely on marketing and advertising spend to define and drive a value prop for a market that is, hopefully, well-defined. You're buying distribution.

In that context, the answer in this case is to simply start talking about your project and showing it to people and asking for feedback (as you have done), and be conscious that what you're looking for is signals of user interest -- little sparks that you can convert into tiny flames so that you can start a fire.

Assume that you are still at user experience iteration zero. Everything you've done so far is sunk cost and still needs iterative user validation.

[cosmicgadget]

That sounds a lot like work. For me, a big benefit of personal projects is seeing how much I can accomplish when there isn't process.

And so either the output is something that only helps me or it's something that's generally useful to others and maybe needs last mile tweaks to be ready for prime time.

If I did agile poker and code commenting and stuff it would take all the fun (momentum) out of sitting down at my home desk after hours at my work desk.

I should say, your answer is completely correct - particularly for motivated people - and not incongruous with my perspective. I just wanted to spare a thought for the things that make personal projects fun. I just would only do requirements gathering over a beer.

[adenverd]

> That sounds a lot like work.

Correct. This is why the Product Manager role exists - to define "what problem are we solving, why, and for whom?" by engaging with the market. But if you already know what problem you want to solve (for yourself, or for fun), don't bother. But also don't expect others to pay for a solution to a problem they don't have.

> agile poker and code commenting and stuff

These are tools for team collaboration and business planning, i.e. when there is more than one person involved in a project. You don't _need_ them for solo projects (although I do think code commenting is still a good practice even for solo projects).

[brudgers]

That sounds a lot like work

Because like all forms of success it is.

Good things that come without work are called luck.

There’s nothing wrong with not undertaking work. Indeed it is a useful way of recognizing what actually is worth doing.

[cosmicgadget]

I meant work like "being at a job" rather rather than work like "effort". Although I should say that some personal coding sessions feel like zero effort and produce great code.

[brudgers]

To the difference is doing things you don’t want to do to feed your belly versus doing things you don’t want to do to feed your soul (theres also ding things you want to do for both reasons).

An analogy would be training for an amateur athletic event. Marketing a personal project and running at 5am in winter are showing up at the office in pursuit of a passion.

Not that there’s anything wrong with not wanting to do it.

[nopelynopington]

I'm in the same boat exactly, I build things for myself and then hope other people will use them. I struggle to market things, it seems like so much legwork and I've too many irons in the fire. I almost wish I could just hire a marketer who would take a 50% cut.

> If I did agile poker and code commenting and stuff it would take all the fun (momentum) out of sitting down at my home desk after hours at my work desk.

I hope you're not sitting for hours at work and then continuing to sit for hours in the evening. That's not healthy. It might just be a figure of speech but if not, I'd recommend a standing desk either at work or at home.

I know someone will probably argue with me about standing desks because internet people love arguing, but there's ample evidence that sitting all day is bad for us

[cosmicgadget]

Haha well rest assured I was being hyperbolic. The desk job requires a decent amount of walking around and other after hours obligations mean I only have limited personal dev time.

> a marketer

Maybe get chummy with a product manager who likes it enough to do it after hours?

[satvikpendem]

There are two sorts, projects and products. The former is made for learning and fun, the latter, to sell to others. Don't make the mistake of trying to combine both because oftentimes you will get to neither of their goals (or more likely, a product becomes a project when no one buys what you're making).

[garrickvanburen]

personal projects are fantastic and don't require making anyone happy except yourself.

if however your goal is to make other people happy (which I'd argue is no longer a personal project)...the iterative "work" described above is the fastest, straightest path.

[javafactory]

Thank you very much for your response. I didn’t get a notification yesterday and thought my question had been buried.

----

You’re absolutely right — I need to shift from treating this as a hobby to treating it as real work. But I’m still a beginner. If you don’t mind, could you share some of the things you did to gather early user feedback?

[throwpoaster]

All good!

Let me start by saying that, for me, this is the hardest part of any creative endeavour and I haven't figured it out. I'm mostly writing this to myself.

Second, this is a very deep aspect of the tech business, so I'm going to glide across the surface with some main points, but everything I say below is more properly addressed in essay format.

I would recommend not thinking of it as "work", but as a new, different part of your project. If you want to turn the project into a business, which is the lens I use to approach these things, then it will eventually _become_ work -- but right now it helps if you choose to feel that you're excited to find people who need your help.

Generally speaking, you want to get into the heads of a bunch of likely users, or ideally actual users, and then help them do what they're trying to do with your project. You do this by getting lots and lots and lots of user feedback, which necessarily starts with prospective users, and looking for commonalities.

You have to keep putting your project in front of people you think might be interested, thinking critically about their feedback, and integrating it. Your previous thread is a great start: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44040301 -- you got a lot very compelling feedback here, particularly this part: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44048399

1. Consider adding the feature the parent asks for, yes, and consider it STRONGLY. It's from someone who wants to use your project in a particular way that seems really cool. Then, ideally, follow-up with that poster and show that you've done it. Ask them to share it with interested people and see how they react.

2. In that response you say you're thinking of starting a community. DO THIS. It's hard to follow up on HN. You want a place where interested people can follow, and get excited about, your progress. Some creatives use Discord, a newsletter, X, etc. This is close to what people mean when they say "build in public".

3. The sub-reply asks for common templates. STRONGLY CONSIDER THIS. "Presets" that accomplish common goals quickly are extremely useful. Apple calls them something like "intelligent defaults". Mozart used instruments with "default" sounds to accomplish his goal: writing operas and symphonies.

For JavaFactory (great name) specifically, you want to put it in front of LOTS AND LOTS of Java developers -- and you're lucky: there are millions of them. "Fish where the fish are" -- find out where they hang out and go hang out with them. Search for people talking about, off the top of my head, why they wish IntelliJ was more like Cursor or something, and show them what you've done. Talk about what you're doing and ask for feedback. Generally give feedback a higher weight than your own ideas, but filter it against a vision of what you're trying to actually accomplish -- don't just build what people ask for, adjust your project to accomplish their goal and eliminate their complaint. Try to get them to join your community, or newsletter, etc. -- but always, ideally, use the software.

This is a very strange way for lots of people to think, but you are looking for signal in a lot of noise. You just have to keep looking and refining and showing and demoing and pivoting and adding and subtracting, always in front of an audience, until they start liking what you're doing. Then try to get them to join your community, or newsletter, etc. -- but always, ideally, use the software.

THEN

Once you know who your typical user is and what value they get from your project, and this should be very specific and well-defined, THEN you find out where THOSE people are and "fish where the fish are" again, much more specifically and with a more targeted message. At this point maybe you own the fishing pond (your community, or newsletter, etc.).

NOW you can look at ad spend and CAC-to-LTV ratios and growth metrics and VC and things.

But all of the above is different for every founder/product/market/etc. You just have to figure it out the hard way.

The way capitalism works is you have to provide lots of people something that they need but don't know how to get. This means new things are ALWAYS found in places no one is looking yet. The fact that you're a beginner is a huge advantage because you have the flexibility of approach to try EVERYTHING, which you should do, and find new ways that work.

Yes, this is a bit of a grind, but done properly it's really creative and fun.

See: https://www.paulgraham.com/ds.html

[halfadot]

>In that context, the answer in this case is to simply start talking about your project and showing it to people and asking for feedback (as you have done), and be conscious that what you're looking for is signals of user interest -- little sparks that you can convert into tiny flames so that you can start a fire.

So all of this text just to tell him to do what he's already been doing?

[joduplessis]

> Everything you've done so far is sunk cost

What an incredibly cynical answer to an honest question.

[MajimasEyepatch]

That’s not cynical at all. They’re not saying it’s wasted effort. “Sunk cost” just means that you can’t get that time and money and effort back, so go where the evidence leads you today, even if it strays from your original vision.