[seanmcdirmid]

The IP is important. Not only did you use $50 in parts, but the design, software, and marketing were done in the states. One critical flaw in MAGA thinking is that these inputs are worthless: the full value of an iPhone comes from China because that’s where it was assembled even if most of the value was actually added in the USA. China wants to be on the other side of the value chain as well and really don’t mind swapping places with the US (and it looks like that will happen long term now due to Trumpism).

[adrian_b]

The value of the American "IP" consists more in the might of the US government than in the actual value of that "IP".

A few years ago, Huawei was in a clear path of becoming the biggest producer of smartphones in the world, with smartphones that by now were based on their own IP, including CPUs and modems, even if Huawei had started 20 years ago by buying smartphone IP from companies like Siemens (which had been reckless enough to sell it). At that time, the latest Huawei designs were superior in performance to those of Qualcomm and superior in performance per dollar to those of Apple.

The result was that the US government has started a campaign of sabotage against Huawei, because they did not like the result of a "free market".

A couple of years later everything has repeated when there was the danger that Chinese manufacturers of flash memories will overcome Micron.

So the percentage that American "IP" takes in the products of other countries is only maintained by quasi-military actions of the US government, which treats any commercial rivals as enemies against which any sanctions are justified.

[seanmcdirmid]

China is definitely getting there, no doubt. They won't be a place where assembly just happens anymore, it will be more like robots assemble things and people mostly focus on IP/software/etc...

The fairness of the competition between American and China in IP, I'm sure if you are heavy on one side or the other its obvious, but to me it seems like there is truth in China stealing secrets and there is truth in America using quasi-military actions to protect what is basically a monopoly on a segment of high-value goods. But whatever you think, what Trump is doing now ultimately benefits China and hurts America in the short and long term.

[adrian_b]

I have no doubt that China has stolen IP whenever they had a chance.

For example, Huawei was famous for draconic rules imposed to its employees in order to ensure that they could not take out any information from their computers and also that no information could be accessed by any visitor or by anyone outside working hours.

Presumably they were very careful with this because that is how they would have attempted to exploit a competitor.

Nevertheless, the many Americans who still believe that the Chinese success is based on stolen IP are completely delusional.

China has bought most of the IP with which they have started developments and not stolen it. Reckless companies from USA and EU have sold all that IP. Talking about "stealing" is just a tactic used to obscure who are the culprits, who have obtained nice financial gains from selling IP to China.

Moreover, in recent years China no longer has much to steal from USA, more the opposite becomes true.

If I look at recent research papers, even if there are also many published Chinese papers that are garbage, there also many that are very innovative, and such innovative Chinese research papers have become much more numerous than the innovative research papers coming from USA. The reason appears to be that the Chinese seem now willing to assume more risks, in searching paths that are uncertain to lead to useful results, while the research in USA seems to have become more conservative, striving to obtain immediate and guaranteed results, which however may not be able to exit a local optimal point in the space of solutions.

I assume that as research financing becomes more difficult, the research in USA will become even more conservative, diminishing its chances to compete successfully in innovations with China.