[astrange]

Japanese transit-using society is old and middle-class; those are the kind of people who follow rules.

Americans are often more rule bound than Japanese people (we have HOAs and Nextdoor), but we just don't respect transit systems as much because we think of them as gifts we give to the poor/mentally ill/homeless.

And then a lot of Americans have an anti-gentrification ideology ("rent-lowering gunshots" or "neighborhood character") which says that anything made for poor people must be kept old and dirty or else rich people will show up and take it away from them.

[mlinhares]

I had never noticed it like that but now I’m dead.

When I moved to my current neighborhood I asked why there was no public transportation and someone said it was so poor people couldn’t be around and I hadn’t connected this to the wider culture.

[mmooss]

I was talking to someone about some existing bicycle road infrastructure that ran through several neighborhoods, rich and poor, in a large city. They said when it first was built, some people in the rich neighborhood objected because they said criminals would use it to come to their neighborhood. (The city is mostly on a grid, including this neighborhood, making the whole idea absurd anyway.)

I had long ago pointed out to them that much of the bike infrastructure connects wealthy neighborhoods with wealthy neighborhoods.

[phatskat]

Yep, it puts the “F U” in fun!

Along the public transit line (ha!), the person primarily in charge of NYC’s road design and public transit planning back in the day made several anti-poor design choices, like ensuring overpasses crossing roads to less-poor (I.e. more-white) areas were just low enough that public busses couldn’t pass under them, as well as planning off-ramps that dumped a majority of the smog-ridden traffic into poorer neighborhoods, and let’s not forget how public parks in poorer neighborhoods had little monkeys adorning the fences. If you’ve ever wondered why a dangerously busy road with little in the way of safety measures for pedestrians cut between a neighborhood and a shopping district, you can thank Robert Moses.

[kanbankaren]

> current neighborhood

Context please? Which country and city?

[presentation]

I assume US, city doesn’t matter since this is the default opinion for most NIMBY suburban Americans in all US cities.

[mlinhares]

A suburb in southern winter garden, FL.

[isatty]

Japanese transit using society is not all old and middle class: it’s pretty much everyone who is not filthy rich isn’t it?

[astrange]

Old meaning not young. Pretty much all crimes or any other forms of messy behavior worldwide are committed by young men.

But the median age in NYC is 38 and Tokyo is 45. (source: two Google searches I just did). That means a lot!

It's true they don't jump the gates often and they don't have loud panhandlers. Instead the societal transit ills are passed out drunks, suicides and molesters. (Not meaning these actually happen all the time, it's just my impression of what people talk about.)

> it’s pretty much everyone who is not filthy rich isn’t it?

Hmm, it's more about what you're doing, I think? Rich people use transit all the time if it serves their purposes afaik. One thing that helps in Japan is the culture of wearing face masks means you won't be recognized in public. (Obviously this doesn't work if you're like a 7' NBA player.)

For going between cities the trains are actually the nice expensive option, and flying or taking a night bus is cheaper.

But trains are also basically only good at carrying yourself. If you're traveling in a group, or carrying equipment with you, or don't want to walk a lot then you'd still want to drive or take a taxi locally.

[mmooss]

> Pretty much all crimes or any other forms of messy behavior worldwide are committed by young men.

Pretty much all?

[mmooss]

> we just don't respect transit systems as much because we think of them as gifts we give to the poor/mentally ill/homeless.

> And then a lot of Americans have an anti-gentrification ideology ("rent-lowering gunshots"

I think the ideology is in the parent comment. I ride lots of public transit and don't hear or see these things. The largest American public transit system, in NYC, certainly isn't seen as a gift other than by New Yorkers to themselves.

FWIW, I've seen American transit systems that let people board without even being asked to pay. I've seen plenty of bus drivers wave through people who couldn't pay. On one bus a teen boarded and walked straight to their seat. The bus driver, in an authoritative parental voice, kept summoning them to the front. There they lectured them: It's ok, but you need to talk to me first.

[m463]

I didn't see that. All ages, including lots of school kids.

I'm just amazed at how considerate japanese society is.