[AnotherGoodName]

You can also simply register all your devices individually as a passkey and login with any one of them. Part of the point of the passkey standard was that you can simply have your laptop/phone/etc. act as a Fido2 backed security key in its own right. So if you have multiple devices it's pretty easy to set them all up as your passkeys.

Eg. My Microsoft desktop, my Google phone, my Apple laptop all have passkeys setup individually that allow login to my various accounts such as my Google account.

So they aren't at all synced. They are all from different vendors but they can all login since i set them all up as passkeys. It's easy to do this too. Setup one site for passkey login via phone, go to that site on your desktop and select "auth via phone passkey" and use the phone passkey and then once logged in on the desktop go to account setup and select "Create a passkey on this device". The end result is you have multiple hardware security keys, namely your phone, desktop and laptop.

[xyzzy123]

My issue with this is the NxM problem, if you want to do this on 10 websites with 5 devices you need to maintain 50 passkeys.

[kccqzy]

The NxM problem is at least better than the other problem where a website or app requires at most one passkey. WeChat (which is basically required if you need to talk to business associates or friends in mainland China) simply does not support multiple passkeys.

[immibis]

I find it odd to be designing our technology based around ease of use by totalitarian governments.

[AnotherGoodName]

For myself it's really only the Google/Apple/MS accounts i'm using with passkeys so far (and third party sign in/chrome password syncing for the smaller sites) so N is small right now.

Hopefully better syncing comes soon but i'm ok with the current situation for now.

[xyzzy123]

It seems like the obvious endgame is most people will use very strong auth between their devices and Google / Microsoft / Apple and then federate to everything else. All other workflows will become niche because it's not in monopoly interests to build features that make anything else convenient or manageable.

This is where the incentives push and is why we're unlikely to see usable or easy passkey sync.

I'm sort of ok with this (it will be a net security improvement) but it saddens me a little to see more of the web come under centralised control.

Most people won't fully understand the implications of this, which will be that the right law enforcement request will instantly unlock every service you have access to regardless of jurisdiction.

Plus lots of secondary effects relating to fed auth providers having increasing leverage over the web in general.

[kccqzy]

> the right law enforcement request will instantly unlock every service you have access to regardless of jurisdiction.

You are conflating the old model of "log in with Google" and the new model of Google syncing your passkeys in an E2E way. The latter is more resistant to law enforcement misuse (not 100%, see All Writs Act in the San Bernardino shooter case).

[xyzzy123]

Yep, I agree good outcomes are possible and an e2e sync'd passkey should have better privacy properties than a federated login.

It's a nuanced discussion because in practice today, email provider is regarded as ultimate source of truth regarding identity, except for high security domains e.g. where money is involved (banks, crypto) and it's economically viable for recovery to be high touch.

So having access to a user's email is the first "golden key".

Second is OIDC / social logins.

Third would be passkeys / stored passwords / an unlocked device.

My guess about the future is that OIDC / social login will prove to scale and grow better than direct passkeys in most instances. It's a better, more fully developed model for thinking about and managing identity lifecycle, passkeys themselves are a low level primitive by comparison.

Users will understand it (social login) better, providers will support it better (partly because corporates don't have any way to centrally manage passkeys at scale, nor should they) and finally because of the fallback / recovery problem for sites using passkeys.

[recursive]

This scares me because I could get fully locked out if my house burns down or something. I like this property of a password manager. This seems to be in direct conflict with the design goals of passkeys.

[AnotherGoodName]

Non-passkey based account access still works. As in i can go into my Google/Apple/MS account settings right now and in the security tab there's a ton of different options you can set.

Backup codes, sms phone recovery, alternate recovery email are all there in all of the above.

It's no different to forgetting your password/losing access to your password manager is it? As in i've literally at points lost access with passkeys (i only had 1 at the time) and the way i got back in was very straightforward and no different to losing access to a password manager. I got an email and typed my old password and i got back in and re-setup my passkeys.

[recursive]

If I lose access to my password manager, I'd be substantially boned. But I'm less worried about that. It would require me to forget my password, or 1password to get pwned, go bad, or lose data.

The way I assess risk, that's less likely to happen than I am to lose my passkeys.

If I'm using passkeys but can recover my account with SMS, then why am I using passkeys? That sounds like the weak link of security. I'd rather use passwords, where I can understand what the password consists of rather than passkeys if I'm not getting an increase in security.

[AnotherGoodName]

Account recovery with the big providers that support passkeys is two factor from what i've experienced, eg. sms+email, email+old password or sms+recovery code etc. so definitely a step up from password login.

[lxgr]

Many password managers these days support passkeys and can synchronize them in whatever way you use to also sync your passwords (i.e. a cloud backend, but also a self-hosted Syncthing shared folder etc.)

[recursive]

I can easily export and import my passwords from my password managers and do whatever I want with them. I enjoy having that lever over my subscription.

[lxgr]

There are several subscription-free password managers available that support passkeys, e.g. Bitwarden (self-hosted), Strongbox (lifetime version available), or KeepassXC.

It's unfortunately not quite the same level of portability as passwords, as I don't think there's any standardized export/import format yet, but these options are significantly better than Apples's and Google's closed ecosystems.

[dvngnt_]

I've been using keypassxc which supports passkeys. It works for github at least