[vacuity]

We don't need to talk about theoretical risks. Is there not something wrong about a calculator app asking for contacts and location permissions[0]? Are ads fine if they can be used to track every detail of what you do and want? Was it fine when CrowdStrike caused Windows systems in airports BSOD and lead to massive delays? I'm not even talking about threats to life here. There is plenty of evidence that a lot of software has...issues. If you haven't come across one that you consider indicative, try waiting a few years. Time doesn't heal bugs that don't get fixed, and the best case scenario is a headache or some lost money. You can say "in practice most people only need lazy evaluation" because the reality isn't that software quality is overall mediocre, it's that there aren't delightfully convenient alternatives to switch to. In practice, most people only need something that somewhat works, even when it often doesn't, because complaining otherwise is unproductive.

And you seem to have ignored a lot of what I said, as if I was just talking about a few rare, critical problems.

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/d6g6qr/it...

[90s_dev]

> Is there not something wrong about a calculator app asking for contacts and location permissions[0]?

Depends.

> Are ads fine if they can be used to track every detail of what you do and want?

Depends.

> Was it fine when CrowdStrike caused Windows systems in airports BSOD and lead to massive delays?

Depends.

That's my whole point. You're presuming some absolutes which aren't universally necessitated or desired.

[vacuity]

I'm aware of personal taste, but I will say

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

- Upton Sinclair

and note (because it is not included in the quote) that a literal salary is not necessary or sufficient. Really? Is this not just resigning to subpar software? My counterpoint is that what is popular is not necessarily what should be popular. And I think you're still tunnel-visioning for a specific thing to criticize. Do I have to keep giving examples until I find one you will deign to agree is a serious issue? Just as hasty generalization is harmful, so is hasty specialization. Perhaps you personally don't see a problem, but there can be many reasons for that.

[90s_dev]

> Is this not just resigning to subpar software?

It's getting from point A to point B with whatever works best given the circumstances after considering all the pros and cons. Sometimes that is garbage software. I mean I've even used _____ once or twice! [edit] redacted to not throw any software under the bus

[vacuity]

> It's getting from point A to point B with whatever works best given the circumstances after considering all the pros and cons.

I agree with you on this, but on this forum that's full of people who write software, I'm skeptical that making better software isn't often (usually?) the better choice. But I understand that this is one of those "critical mass" things where a few people can't do nearly as much.

[90s_dev]

The point is that "better" is relative to a whole bunch of trade-offs that you have to manage and pick and choose per language per project pre need, and just like in spoken language, there's no obvious Perfect Software Language. They all have trade-offs.

[vacuity]

Sure, but different languages tend towards different outcomes, and I think we rather should be going towards certain outcomes.