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by jackcosgrove 395 days ago
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6 comments

Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.

We want curious conversation here. That can only happen when people say new things. Generic denunciations like what you posted here not only are nothing new, they're as repetitive as it gets.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Not sure if all crypto is a scam necessarily, but sure that world is chock full of scammers trying to out-scam each other.
And if you give the scammers a platform that's not useful for anything else than building endless variations of memecoins and productless fake-tech penny stocks, what is the expected output?

  Not sure if all crypto is a scam necessarily, but sure that world is chock full of scammers trying to out-scam each other.
It's all scams. Even if the coin itself is not a total scam, the exchanges do some of the most shady things you can imagine. They'll actively trade against their customers. They'll do insider trading, rugpull their customers, gets "hacked" by an insider and steal all your coins, etc.

Even BTC and ETH are shady. ETH should have been classified as security. BTC is an environmental disaster and centralized by a few large miners.

I don't think that it's all a scam, but I do think that it gives scammers a vehicle to con people without oversight or regulation. They also end up with "real" money which can be spent.
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Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. We want curious conversation here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You can keep telling yourself that, but there's enough utility and momentum behind it that it is not going anywhere. I'm saying this as a person with no stake in the matter, just observing from the sidelines.
Tbh, I just made this comment because I thought it would be funny to use your username in it. (Doesn't mean my opinion is something else, though)
Ha, I was wondering. Thanks for the chuckle. :-)
Bernie Madoff's investments had a lot of utility and momentum for decades, too.
This is true but his records were well hidden, and the Bitcoin ledger is public.
What is the utility behind it? I don't see people using to actually do any transactions because of the volatility and fluctuating transaction fees. Scams can have momentum behind them
Again, I'm going to mention that I'm looking at this from the sidelines.

I would argue that people make more purchases with Bitcoin than they do with gold.

There are people who use crypto for transactions. Stablecoins are stable and for some people the fees are far lower than any alternatives.
True fiscal self-sovereignty. Albeit quite volatile.
Ditto baseball cards.
You can't send baseball cards instantly across the world and you have no guarantee of their authenticity.
Really? Seems more like the scams that keep it going? What's the utility that is keeping it going?
This is an absurd claim since it takes a single counter-example to disprove.

E.g. you can pay for Mullvad in crypto, Mullvad is not a scam. You can trade predictions on Polymarket, Polymarket is not a scam.

People don't want logic, they want to believe what they want.
Well, now I’m convinced
Glad I was able to help.
the dynamics of the crypto market seem to push non scammers out.

im not sure whether this is gresham's law or the dynamics of a lemon market in action or what though.

  the dynamics of the crypto market seem to push non scammers out.
Anyone with any morals would leave crypto after a while.
Somehow yes, and it's quite sad.

The blockchain technology itself is a marvel and the safety/security properties of properly decentralized systems are unmatched. The whole financial world would be better written using blockchain/smart contracts, same goes for voting/governance, etc.

But these scammers. So many of them... Easy to smell though, but the problem we need to fix is these scammers get most of the online traction/attention, taking it from truer builders.

>The whole financial world would be better written using blockchain/smart contracts, same goes for voting/governance, etc.

Citation needed. Governance and finance absolutely need human judgment recovery edge cases such as "My house burnt down containing my ID (keys) and I need access to my bank account to rebuild it"

Right. All of these "finance and government would be so much better with smart contracts" suggestions seem predicated on the idea that human beings can design a system correctly on the first attempt and deploy an immutable version of that system they can then run independently forever without any bugs or exploits that need to be fixed in the future.

Human beings cannot do that.

Good point.

It seems the common approach now is to make a v2/v3/etc. of your protocol and let your own users migrate. Previous versions will still run forever, but your frontend can push migration paths.

Social recovery for smart accounts covers your use case
Unlikely in practice.

"My house burned down and inside was my spouse, who was my reco ery contact"

"My recovery contact died / isn't speaking to me / is backpacking in the Himalayas"

The problem isn't technical. It isn't a formal mathematical problem. It's that the real world is messy.

There are plenty of other classes of problems too. "This person committed a crime and their assets need to be seized", etc.

>The blockchain technology itself is a marvel and the safety/security properties of properly decentralized systems are unmatched. The whole financial world would be better written using blockchain/smart contracts, same goes for voting/governance, etc.

No, blockchain really isn't all that amazing. Blockchain is useful when you need something decentralized, immutable, and trustless. That trustless bit is the important part, there are existing solutions for decentralized immutable ledgers that work far better than blockchains and require far less compute power. And it turns out that the vast majority of human and business interactions and transactions are actually based on varying levels of trust.

And that's before you get into blockchain-specific issues like the Oracle Problem.

Most important property of blockchains is verifiable transparency. That is a huge deal and yes, most financial and government systems would be much better for people if they were built with that type of verifiable transparency.

Decentralization is important but isn't as important. There are many successful chains that aren't decentralized at all and are quite useful.

Most top/real projects in blockchains aren't immutable. Pretty much everything is upgradable/changeable, including blockchains themselves.

Trustless - even this part isn' true for most blockchain systems. They all contain various levels of trusting different entities.

It is the transparency and verifiability that is the key idea and most important improvement that blockchains bring.

>It is the transparency and verifiability that is the key idea and most important improvement that blockchains bring.

You can have transparency and verifiability without blockchain, so long as you trust the parties publishing the ledger. So once again, trustless is really the key part to blockchain.

> Most top/real projects in blockchains aren't immutable. Pretty much everything is upgradable/changeable, including blockchains themselves.

> Trustless - even this part isn' true for most blockchain systems.

Blockchains are immutable, trustless, permissionless. Otherwise it's called a database.

Spoke to some people working at big banks: They say trust, or rather lack thereof, _between_ banks is a key issue. Blockchains solve that.
No, they don't. Bank networks are fundamentally permissioned, only authorized entities are allowed to participate. Verifiability is a political/legal decision between these entities, not a technical limitation of existing systems.
Somehow? The only objective value from crypto is anonymity. It only serves to incentivize shady behavior.
I would say most current blockchains are pretty bad at privacy. Look at what onchain sleuths do.

Rather, blockchains enable anyone to provably check the state of the database. Your fintech app logs you out. No proof, and frustrating customer service hell for days/weeks/months.

> The whole financial world would be better written using blockchain/smart contracts, same goes for voting/governance, etc.

Eh? I thought blockchain didn't scale? As far as I can see blockchain swaps trust in banking institutions ( not to simply make up numbers in their banking systems ) - to trust in a majority based voting system where you don't know the people involved and you just hope the bad guys don't have a majority.

And the computational cost of running the distributed voting system - is many of orders magnitude higher than the computational costs of transactions in the we-trust-the-bank-model.

As for smart contracts - a quick google suggests that the cost of deploying a smart contract on Ethereum is 500 dollars - that's quite an overhead for the vast majority of financial transactions.

> The whole financial world would be better written using blockchain/smart contracts, same goes for voting/governance, etc.

These are all scams, too. No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_DAO serves as a nice concrete example. "Code is law" fell apart as soon as the code resulted in a large enough bad outcome for enough people.

Same as email I mean most of it is scams and ads so who cares about the tech or other people actually using it not like we are in a place tech literate enough to seperate technology and its users beyond the absolute surface.

Hekin upvoted kind stranger!

Prove it!
Then the fiat money scam is no less. But no one is outraged...