[jvans]

I think this blind spot exists because the pure engineering/logic mindset is such a massive superpower in so many elements of life, people fail to consider that it might not always be the right way to think about the world.

One obvious example where it falls laughably short is in interpersonal relationships. Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work

[roenxi]

> Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work.

It does, there just needs to be a proper model of how humans work to back it up. The usual mistake is using logic to prove why a person is right instead of to work out why the relationship is going wrong.

People who don't use logic to guide their interpersonal interactions cap out in some fairly shallow waters. They are more easily suckered by emotions primed to respond to looks and the present instead of properly aligning the relationship for the long haul. The easiest path to push back against those inbuilt biases is logic - there needs to be some set of principles beyond emotions to use as a guide.

[crawfordcomeaux]

There's also the added issue that binary logic (what most people use when they say "logic") is only slightly less constrained than unary logic and is insufficient for modeling reality. Without uncertainty logic, the wisdom available is highly limited. This allows for every emotional story to be engaged and worked through without declaring it immediately and absolutely false, allowing emotions to inform while not letting them drive the decision-making process.

[bckr]

Love this thread.

“Two seemingly contradictory things can both be true”

“Your feelings and fantasies matter, but are not ‘real’”

[closewith]

Yes, I wonder if the two commentors in the thread above you appreciate the irony of their posts.

[watwut]

And that is where nerds do massive missteps including horribly ridiculous jumps in the logic. Because nerds and technical people are emotions driven as anyone else. They react to own feelings of anger, fear, frustration etc.

But, since they think emotions dont matter and cant be talked about, they rationalize all above into arguments that sound logical to them and no one else.

[chasd00]

All people in the relationship have to be willing to use logic (and understand logic) for it to ever work when dealing with the relationship. That’s rarely the case.

[roenxi]

Logic is a technique for detecting inconsistent beliefs. Only one person using it is still helpful, one side being logically alert in a disagreement is going to open up more paths toward controlled deescalation and resolution than two people both fighting while being logically inconsistent.

[jvans]

Even when it is the case you can logically come to a resolution but if you don't emotional feel it, the problem/conflict is not solved and will come up again. In my experience this manifests in non obvious ways that are far removed from the original problem

[jvans]

Good luck with that :)

[smokel]

I think the reasonable explanation is that logic works great for simple systems, but once there are more than, say, seven variables involved, nobody can properly reason in real-time anymore. Personal relations, politics, raising a child, finding out what to do with life, selecting a web framework, all involve millions of variables.

Even if some abstract concepts (love, power, friendship) allow a scientifically minded person to consider complex systems as simpler ones, the underlying complexity is still there, and is relevant. Human ecosystems do not adhere to Maxwell's laws.

[mock-possum]

> One obvious example where it falls laughably short is in interpersonal relationships. Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work

This is awfully glib for something that rings so wrong for me - logic not useful in emotional conflict?? Emotional conflict itself stems from emotion! How could taking a step back and trying to look at things logically not be productive?

In my experience, one of the only things that can safely navigate conflict, whether emotional or otherwise, is logic - your challenge is to actually be disciplined enough to apply it in stressful situations - and/or to be willing to leave the matter unsettled until you’ve had time to cool down and can afford the luxury of looking at things more practically.

I suspect we’re using the same words to mean different things because I can’t imagine not being able to logic your way out of emotional conflict, I can’t imagine any other route being viable apart from logic - I think the root cause of emotional conflict is getting overwhelmed by feelings and neglecting to think.

[alexashka]

Using logic with people who think logic fails laughably short anytime they get emotional does indeed not work.

These people view everything through the lens of power - they are amusingly simple creatures who only use logic to acquire power or for an occasional hoot.

When people like that get into positions of power over others - disaster follows.

[tekla]

> people fail to consider that it might not always be the right way to think about the world.

Sadly, lack of education and worldly experience will do that