[bossyTeacher]

Problem is that, come recruiting time, interview gatekeepers are filtering out candidates who don't have the shiny words of the season, see micro services, unit tests, lots of abstractions, etc. It's like a dating app game. Everyone knows is overblown but they are still playing the game. The idea that not every company needs to make the same architectural and technological decisions is a concept way too complex for interview gatekeepers.

[hereonout2]

Are unit tests a shiny fad? Second time I've seen it mentioned in this thread. Is there some other type of testing I should be doing, or have I been doing it all wrong for the last two decades?

[roguecoder]

For unit testing to pay off, it requires having modular units to test.

Programmers coming up through frameworks or functional programming often don't have those, and so the techniques OO unit testers use don't translate well at all. If the first "unit" you build is a microservice, the first possible "unit" test is the isolation test for that service.

I have watched junior engineers crawl over glass to write tests for something because they didn't know how to write testable code yet, and then the tests they write often make refactoring a-la-Martin-Fowler's-book impossible.

(And that is leaving aside the consultancies that want to be able to advertise "100% test coverage!" but don't actually care if the tests make software harder to maintain in the long run because they aren't going to be there.)

Eventually we'll be able to acknowledge that there are a lot of different skills in our profession, and that writing good code isn't about being "smart": it's about knowing how to write code well. But until then people will keep blaming the tools they don't know how to use.

[codr7]

Integration testing?

Less mocking, more bang for the buck.

[hereonout2]

Back in the day when I used to make "webapps" - our integration tests were an epic faff.

Often times using things like cucumber to describe a set of interactions, in the days before headless chrome it'd drive selenium which would literally open Firefox on your desktop and start navigating the site.

It did it's job but the feedback loop was slow.

Today I mainly write libraries, cli tools and the occasional small HTTP API. I still have unit and integration tests but they are all just standard pytest functions. I can run each type individually, my definition of an "integration" test is either something that talks to the outside world in some capacity, or something that is really slow (mostly running an ml model these days).

I much prefer today's approach, but admittedly I work on things with far fewer points of interaction which I think greatly simplifies the work.

[roguecoder]

I am so mad that the mockists stole the word "unit test" for their thing. The original definition of a unit test was writing "integration" tests for each of the sub-components of a system.

(Mockist tests are fine for people who really want them, as long as you delete them before checking in the code.)

[bossyTeacher]

i thought mockist tests are written in a separate test module