[ceejayoz]

Several related facts:

* The US has a lot more guns than most other developed countries.

* The US has a lot more murders than most other developed countries.

* Places like Chicago are, statistically, not all that different in this regard from elsewhere in the US.

The US has a murder/firearm problem at a population level. The chances of any randomly selected individual being part of it remains fairly low. We simultaneously should be ashamed of our clear violence problem, and recognize that "and then I started blasting" is not a great response to it.

Focus on "urban" people in Chicago is a misdirection by folks who'd rather not deal with the national-level concerns.

The same people who want you to think Chicago's ~26.9/100k homicide rate is terrifyingly scary want you to think COVID's ~279/100k was not.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

Your own stats

>US: 5.763/100k (of which 3-4/100k are firearms)

>Chicago's ~26.9/100k homicide rate

So Chicago has a ~5x increase over the national average homicide rate and you're calling guns a "national-level concern".

Can you help me understand why I should have gun control in my ~2.6/100k county just because Chicago has 10x that rate?

[ceejayoz]

Sure.

Chicago's guns come from outside Chicago; it's surrounded by very permissive jurisdictions. (Trump supporters like to call this sort of issue "open borders".)

Your county's seemingly "low" rate is 5x that of China (0.5/100k), 3x that of Germany (0.8/100k), double the city of London (1.4/100k). It's abberantly high still, by international standards.

[dragonwriter]

Despite emphasizing “city of London”, the stats you are citing seem to be those of Metropolitan London (for which stats are relatively easily locatable), not the City of London (for which this particular stat is harder to find, but overall has much lower crime than Metropolitan London.)

[ceejayoz]

The city of London is Metropolitan London. The Big-C City of London is the little bit mostly fascinating to those of us who go down Wikipedia rabbit holes. I didn't capitalize it for a reason; I emphasize its being a city because it's useful in the "well that's because the stats are for entire countries" aspect of things.

Big cities in Europe are largely safer statistically than even the low-crime areas of the US.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

Why don't you compare the US to Nigeria, Brazil, or Pakistan? Those are more in-line with US population size than Germany, London, or China

[ceejayoz]

> Why don't you compare the US to Nigeria, Brazil, or Pakistan?

Because we are in the developed world, and "at least we're better than Pakistan" is probably not the highest of bars we should aspire to as a country?

> Those are more in-line with US population size than Germany, London, or China

The EU, if you prefer - similar size, population, state+federal(ish) makeup, developed world, mix of wealthy and poorer jurisdictions, etc. - has a 0.86/100k rate.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

> is probably not the highest of bars we should aspire to

Keep going on this. Why is the US inherently better than Pakistan/Nigeria/Brazil?

[ceejayoz]

Inherently? Nah.

Historically? Colonialism.

Currently? Yeah, I'd rather live here in the developed world.

[hollerith]

Because the numbers we are citing here have been divided by population size.

[ahmeneeroe-v2]

It's likely that population size/density can't be abstracted away by normalizing figures since those are actually factors leading to population violence/governance.

[hollerith]

Why would a resident of a populous country be significantly more likely to kill than a resident of a small country?