[voidspark]

> Progress of technology should not be artitrarily held back to protect automateable jobs though. We need to adapt.

So you don't mind if your economic value drops to zero, with all human labour replaced by machines?

Dependent on UBI, existing in a basic pod, eating rations of slop.

[TobTobXX]

Yes! Sounds like a dream. My value isn't determined by some economic system, but rather by myself. There is so much to do when you don't have to work. Of course, this assumes we actually get to UBI first, and it doesn't create widespread poverty. But even if humanity will have to go through widespread poverty, we'd porbably come out with UBI on the other side (minus a few hundred millions starved).

There's so much to do, explore and learn. The prospect of AI stealing my job is only scary because my income depends on this job.

[voidspark]

> There's so much to do, explore and learn.

Hobbies, hanging out with friends, reading, etc. That's basically it.

Probably no international travel.

It will be like a simple retirement on a low income, because in a socialist system the resources must be rationed.

This will drive a lot of young ambitious people to insanity. Nothing meaningful for them to achieve. No purpose. Drug use, debauchery, depression, violence, degeneracy, gangs.

It will be a true idiocracy. No Darwinian selection pressures, unless the system enforces eugenics and population control.

[TobTobXX]

> Hobbies, hanging out with friends, reading, etc. That's basically it. > It will be like a simple retirement on a low income [...].

Yes, like retirement but without the old age. Right now I'm studying, so I do live on a very low income. But still, there are so many interesting things! For example, I'm trying to design a vacuum pump to 1mbar to be made of mostly 3d printed parts. Do vacuum pumps exist and can I buy them? Absolutely. But is it still fun to do the whole designing process? You bet. And I can't even start explaining all the things I'm learning.

> This will drive a lot of young ambitious people to insanity.

I teach teenagers in the age where they have to choose their profession. The ones going insane will be the unambitious people, those who just stay on TikTok all day and go to work because what else would they do? The ambitious will always have ideas and projects. And they won't mind creating something that already exists, just because they like the process of it.

We already see this with generative AI. Even though you could generate most of the images you'd want already, people still enjoy the process of painting or photographing. Humans are made to be creative and take pleasure from it, even if it is not economically valuable.

Hell, this is Hacker News. Hacking (in its original sense) was about creativity and problem-solving. Not because it will make you money, but because it was interesting and fun.

[voidspark]

Introverted high IQ nerds are a tiny percentage of the world population. We exist in a tiny bubble here in Hacker News.

I am thinking about society as a whole, how it will affect all types of people and cultures on this planet.

[TobTobXX]

There is nothing "introverted high IQ nerd" about being creative. Think about everyone that is practicing music, artistry, crafts, rhetoric, cooking, languages, philosophy, writing, gardening, carpentry, and whatever you can think of. Most of them don't do it for money.

> [...] how it will affect all types of people and cultures on this planet.

Some will definitely feel without purpose. But I'd argue that just having a job so that you have a purpose is just a band-aid, not a real solution. I won't say that purposelessness isn't a problem, just that it would be great to actually address the issue.

Granted, I do hold a utopic view. I continue to be curious due to my religious belief, where I'm looking forward to life unconstrained by age. Regardless whether this will manifest, I think it is healthy to remain curious and continue learning. So on "how it will affect all types of people": I really do think that people without purpose need to engage in curiosity and creativity, for their own mental health.

[voidspark]

Yes a few of us will enjoy the peaceful life of contemplation like Aristotle, but not everyone is genetically wired that way.

Introverts are only 25% - 40% of the population, and most people are not intellectually or artistically gifted (whether introvert or not), but they still want to contribute and feel valued by society.

> I'd argue that just having a job so that you have a purpose

It's not just about having a job. It's having an important or valuable role in society, feeling that your contributions actually matter to others - such as building or fixing things that others depend on, or providing for a family,

What would motivate a young boy to go through years of schooling, higher education, and so on, just to become a hobbyist, tinkering around on projects that no one else will ever use or really need? That may be acceptable for some niche personality types but not the majority.

Aspiring engineers or entrepreneurs are not merely motivated by having a job.

I am envisioning the AGI or ASI scenario which truly overtakes humans in all intellectual and physical capabilities, essentially making humans obsolete. That would smash the foundations and traditions of our civilization. It's an incredible gamble.

[pixelbro]

Wait, wait, wait. Our society's gonna fall apart due to a lack of Darwinian selection pressure? What do you think we're selecting for right now?

Seems to me like our culture treats both survival and reproduction as an inalienable right. Most people would go so far as to say everyone deserves love, "there's a lid for every pot".

[knowaveragejoe]

> This will drive a lot of young ambitious people to insanity. Nothing meaningful for them to achieve.

Maybe, if the only flavor of ambition you're aware of is that of SV types. Plenty of people have found achievement and meaning before and alongside the digital revolution world.

[voidspark]

I mean common people will be affected just as badly as SV types. It will impact everyone.

Jobs, careers, real work, all replaced by machines which can do it all better, faster, cheaper than humans.

Young people with modest ambitions to learn and master a skill and contribute to society, and have a meaningful life. That can be blue collar stuff too.

How will children respond to the question - "What do you want to be when you grow up?"

They can join the Amish communities where humans still do the work.

[cik]

> So you don't mind if your economic value drops to zero, with all human labour replaced by machines?

This was the fear when the cotton gin was invented. It was the ear when cars were created. The same complaint happened with the introduction of electronic, automated, telephone switchboards.

Jobs change. Societies change. Unemployment worldwide, is near the lowest it has ever been. Work will change. Society will eventually move to a currency based on energy production, or something equally futuristic.

This doesn't mean that getting there will be without pain.

[achierius]

Where did all the work-horses go? Why is there barely a fraction of the population there once was? Why did they not adapt and find niches where they had a competitive advantage over cars and machines?

[wickedsight]

The horses weren't the market the economy is selling to, the people are. Ford figured out that people having both time and money is best for the economy. We'll figure out that having all the production capabilities but none of the market benefits nobody.

[voidspark]

The goal for AGI/ASI is to create machines that can do any job much faster, better, and cheaper than humans. That's the ultimate end point of this progress.

The economic value of human labour will drop to zero. That would be an existential threat to our civilization.