[parrit]

They are not morally equivalent but they are both morally deviant for different reasons.

You could say Hamas is more evil in intent though but Israel more evil by measure of death, destruction, displacement, imprisonment, war crimes, since they have the power to function as a free economy unlike Palestine which is occupied by Israel and they get arms and money from US tax payers.

[slashdev]

Self defense is not evil. Yes it's war, and wars are horrible, and innocent people die - but Israel didn’t start it. Gaza (that’s what you mean when you say Palestine? You don’t seem educated about the region) was free for the most part with zero occupation for the last twenty years. I support Israel in its right to defend itself.

[immibis]

Israel literally started the war by invading Palestine though? It happened a long time ago and they've been at war ever since. It's a hundred years war. I don't understand why some people think October 7 was the beginning of the war.

[slashdev]

You must be referring to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War? That was not started by Israel! You would do well to read up a bit on the history of the region, because "Israel literally started the war by invading Palestine" just doesn't make any sense in a historical context, that never happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

[immibis]

What was in Israel before it was Israel and how did it get changed from that to Israel?

[slashdev]

Where do you want to start? Going back 3000 years it was the state of Israel. Then conquered by various nations, including the Persians, Greeks and the Romans, among others. Move forward a couple thousand years and it was conquered by Arabs. Then in more modern times, the Ottoman Empire, then the British. There have been Jews living there the entire 3000 years.

I suspect you're talking about more recent history, which I'll just copy from Wikipedia here:

"During the Mandate, the area saw successive waves of Jewish immigration and the rise of nationalist movements in both the Jewish and Arab communities. Competing interests of the two populations led to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and the 1944–1948 Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine. The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine to divide the territory into two states, one Arab and one Jewish, was passed in November 1947. The 1948 Palestine war ended with the territory of Mandatory Palestine divided among the State of Israel, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which annexed territory on the West Bank of the Jordan River, and the Kingdom of Egypt, which established the "All-Palestine Protectorate" in the Gaza Strip."

"On 14 May 1948, with the termination of the British Mandate and the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel. The following morning, the surrounding Arab armies invaded Palestine, beginning the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The Egyptians advanced in the south-east while the Jordanian Arab Legion and Iraqi forces captured the central highlands. Syria and Lebanon fought with the Israeli forces in the north. The newly formed Israel Defense Forces managed to halt the Arab forces and in the following months began pushing them back and capturing territory."

Israel has as stronger claim to that land than anyone else, and I want to note the Palestinians had their state in 1947 and gave it up by starting and losing a war. They had a chance to get it back again when Bill Clinton was president, and they turned it down. They want all of it and the Jews dead. They'll keep losing, and keep getting a worse and worse situation for themselves until they can let go of that crazy, evil, and unrealistic idea. They're in the process of losing parts of Gaza now. You don't start a war, lose it, and get to keep your territory. That's rare.