[47282847]

> Working should never cost you money.

And that’s the case as long as the income tax is at or less than 100%. Income taxes could well be collected from employers directly and never reach you (like some European countries do for roughly 50% taxes due). Ultimately what counts is how much your employment costs. Psychologically, it then may not feel like you are paying anything, because you don’t. You working supports public infrastructure for public benefit (which includes you again). Prefer to pay no taxes but having to build your own roads? Good luck with that.

[dragonwriter]

> And that’s the case as long as the income tax is at or less than 100%.

No, its true as long as taxes on income plus the necessary-but-non-deductible expenses associated with maintaining the job that would not be required otherwise are less than the pay for doing the job.

But income taxes aren't the only taxes on income (payroll taxes exist), and costs of work (added wardrobe costs imposed by dress codes and expectations, commute costs, added childcare costs) are real.

[Retric]

Functioning governments drastically increase worker productivity through several means such as enforcing the rule of law, sanitation, infrastructure etc. This is also why people want to immigrate to countries with such high tax rates and more specifically income tax rates.

Thus as the value of wages and investment returns is a direct result of government actions just as the value of land is a direct result of government enforcement of property rights, it’s got equal legitimacy for taxing both.

[dragonwriter]

I don't disagree with anything you said but I also don't see how it bears any relationship (positive or negative) to my post that it responds to.

[Retric]

To be clear, I agree the costs of work caps maximum tax rates well below 100%.

However, I was dumping government into that same cost of work category as commuting costs. It just makes more sense to work in a country where you make 100x as much even if you’re paying 50% in taxes than a failed state with zero income taxes. As such it also makes sense for governments to impose income taxes to be able to pay for things like education that improve short or long term productivity.

[lotsofpulp]

> As such it also makes sense for governments to impose income taxes to be able to pay for things like education that improve short or long term productivity.

Why can’t land value tax be used? It already is in the USA (and probably around the world), but the labs value tax rates can be increased to properly allocate tax liability to this who consume more.

[Retric]

Because market distortion harms society?

Tax homes based on the number of rooms and people suffer without closets even though total revenue remains the same. Income taxes have this wonderful property where factory workers can’t game the system thus avoiding distortions. Land taxes high enough to offset income taxes results in all sorts of unpleasant side effects.

The US approach of funding local schools is horribly inefficient. People like it because it reinforces the class system, but just as with closets people end up with lower standards of living because they’re optimizing around arbitrary rules.

[47282847]

You claimed working costs you. You’re free to have that perspective but I think it is unfortunate and does not contribute to one’s well being. You can, simply for your own benefit, decide to take a different view on it, without having to change any factual truths. You get paid for your work.

I wouldn’t want to think that somebody is taking something that belongs to me away from me. That is not a pleasant feeling.

[47282847]

Hardly anyone would work if the downsides outweighed their personal benefit. Actually, some people decide not to. It’s a trade-off that I’m personally happy to take by working. I enjoy my benefits. Feel free to quit! If it would cost me more than I gain from it, your original point, I would certainly do that.

[lotsofpulp]

> Prefer to pay no taxes but having to build your own roads? Good luck with that.

I never implied preferring not to pay taxes. Marginal land value and consumption tax rates would set incentivizes properly.

Earned income tax is the rich and the old and their younger beneficiaries benefiting (rent seeking) off of others’ labor.