[Osiris]

Given that the CFO encouraged Cook to violate the court order tells me that they calculated that

1. Any fines for not complying would be less than what they would lose by complying

2. That no individual would suffer any consequences for blatantly disobeying a court order.

In my opinion, the whole concept that a company can break the law but no human can be held responsible is insane.

I really hope that criminal charges are brought against those involved in making a conscious choice to both lie to the court and ignore the court order. Hopefully that will make other executives think twice when put in the same situation.

[cogman10]

> I really hope that criminal charges are brought against those involved in making a conscious choice to both lie to the court and ignore the court order.

I do as well, but I have little hope that it will.

Prosecutors don't like prosecuting perjury. It's tricky to prosecute (particularly because of how close it is to the first amendment), takes a lot of time, and often it just ends up with a minor slap on the wrist. I've seen other cases with outrageous perjury that resulted in no criminal prosecution.

This is a broken part of the justice system. Particularly because these apple execs have the money and lawyers to drag out any prosecution until everyone involved is dead. But also because it relies on government prosecutors caring in the first place.

[mrandish]

> particularly because of how close it is to the first amendment

It is tricky to prosecute and prosecutors don't like it but perjury rarely has anything to do with the first amendment.

[jmward01]

We have a lot of messed up rulings in the past that allow corporations to act like people but skate by when they do things as if they weren't people. I say if a corporation can have free speech like a person then they can get thrown in jail like a person too. When illegal stuff happens it should have real, meaningful, consequences like the board being fired and massive fines or outright closing the company. I am not a fan of the industry right now. Apple is a symptom of a broader problem and we need bigger changes to start correcting the direction corporate america has been heading for the last 50 years.

[jwlake]

The judge should really fine apple in the form of a 100% refund of everyones fees for the duration of this behavior. That's the only way the pain is great enough to force forward compliance.

[wiktor-k]

> In my opinion, the whole concept that a company can break the law but no human can be held responsible is insane.

Wait, isn't the board personally liable for their decisions? I'm not a lawyer, obviously.

[manquer]

Not even when their product kills thousands or more and they knowingly took action that resulted in those deaths.

Perdue pharma is a high profile recent example of this , but there dozens of such events from big tobacco to baby formula

[bix6]

Corps are separate legal entities so individuals are generally protected from personal liability. There can be exceptions in criminal and civil liability instances but even then there things like D&O. Until we stop giving corporations so much legal cover we’re hosed.

[fsckboy]

>Corps are separate legal entities so individuals are generally protected from personal liability.

not really.

corps have the defining feature that their passive shareholders are protected from personal liability, but not their officers, directors, nor employees.

they are "entities" so they can sign contracts and you can sue them and bring them to court. they are entities so the entire body of preexisting laws about suing and bringing to court would not need to be rewritten from scratch for corporations, it slots them into the rights and responsibilities that individuals have.

[6510]

That would suggest the fine should be in the hundreds of billions?

[Brian_K_White]

We all hope a lot of things. Come on.