[rafaelcosta]

There's a whole class of sh*t-software that only exists (and is profitable) because users subscribe to them and then forget – primarily because the subscription fee is charged as "Apple" on their Credit Card. I wonder what's gonna happen with this type of scam.

[pasc1878]

If through Apple it is easy to cancel and all subs are listed in one place.

If done through third parties directly the scammers will not make unsubscribing easy and it will not be as easy to find out where you are subscribing.

Thus I expect the scamming to increase.

[rafaelcosta]

Easy from your point of view... This is the argument I mostly hear from Apple folks, but my experience (especially with less tech savvy folks) is that they have no idea where or how to cancel a subscription on IAP and they think that the multiple "Apple" charges are just some iCloud thing or something along those lines. With Credit Card flows the alarm bells go off waaaay earlier: when a website asks for their CC data, they immediately scrutinize more (and thus, conversion rates are lower)

[kergonath]

There’s a single page in the settings with all the subscriptions, and you can cancel any of them by tapping a button and confirming. You get emails regularly with a link to a page with the subscription information when it is renewed. It really is easy and much, much better than all the alternatives I tried.

[spacedcowboy]

I wanted to cancel an Apple subscription recently. I didn't know where to do it. I knew it was coming up because I got an email from Apple to say it was shortly due for renewal.

It took me about 5 seconds to google "cancel subscription apple" and find about a zillion articles on how to do it. Basically open up the App Store, go to your account, click on subscriptions, click on the one in the list you want to cancel. Done.

On the other hand, I also wanted to cancel a pet-locator subscription that was coming up for renewal (we're leaving the country, they don't have coverage outside the US) and I had to go through about 30 layers of "are you sure", "are you really sure", "you know this will stop your service, right?", "we'd sure hate to lose you", "Is there anything we can offer to change your mind", etc. etc.

[kergonath]

> I got an email from Apple to say it was shortly due for renewal.

There was a link in that email to a page to manage and cancel that subscription, although it might not be obvious.

[spacedcowboy]

I went back and checked, and yes there was.

I guess I just saw the title, saw it was a subscription renewal and jumped to "not just no, but hell no", missing the link at the end :)

[pasc1878]

Apple also, I think by default, send out emails just before a subscription is due telling you how to unsubscribe.

I doubt a scammer will do that.

[raverbashing]

Apple users as NPCs confirmed

[pimterry]

> If done through third parties directly the scammers will not make unsubscribing easy and it will not be as easy to find out where you are subscribing.

This is fairly quickly resolved though - if anything close to 1% of customers complain to their banks that they don't want this payment and can't cancel it, triggering a chargeback, the scammers end up entirely blocked from the payment networks entirely in pretty short order. If you end up banned from Visa & Mastercard your whole operation is permanently kaput.

Also, this might be a non-US thing, but over here most modern banks (e.g. Revolut) will let you view & block recurring payment authorizations directly from your banking app anyway.

[srcreigh]

It’s not easy on iOS either.

For me to get to it from App Store, I have to click a tiny profile pic (smallest allowed button on iOS?)

The next screen displays Purchase History and other items. However, no way to cancel from this page (insane?)

To get to subscriptions, I have to click my name at the top of that page (which doesn’t even look like a button) which loads for 3 seconds then pops up.

On this hidden account page, it shows Purchase History along with subscriptions list to cancel.

If any other site hid subscription cancelling behind a flat contact header secret account page, it’d be an issue, so yeah it’s an issue for Apple too.

[MarioMan]

Getting there via the App Store is just one option. You can also get there from Settings under Apple Account > Subscriptions.

And if that’s too tricky, you can just type “Subscriptions” (shows up after just typing “sub” for me) into Spotlight Search, and it’s the top option.

[m_st]

What version are you using? Click 'Settings' -> 'Profile' (huge button on top) -> 'Subscriptions'. I don't know how it could be easier than that. Ah wait, pull down on the home screen for search, type 'subscriptions' and tap on the result for direct access to the setting. From there you can see and cancel any subscription made in the App Store.

[pornel]

Apple could have offered APIs for managing 3rd party subscriptions from that screen, but it's more convenient for them to have a closed system, private APIs, and use their own non-extensibility as an excuse for their closed payment system.

It's also Apple's specialty to create false dichotomies and shit sandwich bundles: it's either the 30% cut or daylight robbery. No third option (in reality PayPal is more consumer-friendly and allows managing subscriptions in one place from more than iOS).

The whole App Store model is a false dichotomy between the 30% cut and Disney-like moderation vs raging malware that will take down the whole mobile network. No third option (so you can't have Fortnight, or any app showing a nipple).

[redleather]

Nothing? The ruling is that app developers get to choose how they communicate to users, or how they charge in-app fees. The kind of shady developers you describe would simply continue to use Apple, as it benefits them to do so.

[rafaelcosta]

Right now, yes, but there's a potential to:

- Most legit services move to a web based Apple Pay (note to the unaware reader: this is NOT In-App Purchases and has never had 30% fees) due to the ease of implementing and lower fee (easier to do cross platform + web) - Non-legit developers keep the In-App flow

Over time this would skew In-App Purchases to be scammy-only (and therefore, easier to spot). I'm sure people at Apple consider this possibility too – and therefore, now that there's actual competition, IAP flows will probably have to change to prevent this and compete for actual developer preference (and keep it a viable legit-developer choice)

[ENGNR]

So they should probably just scrap the 30% fee. At the very least scrap it if the user was linked directly to the app. And just make the also huge commission on the payments.

[llm_nerd]

Apple sends a specific, detailed receipt on the billing of every such item. Apple has some of the most user-friendly subscription management options of anyone. Apple lets you cancel a subscription immediately without cancelling the service immediately, and so on.

There is a lot to criticize Apple for -- the 30% fee is disgusting, and the subject of this order where they bar external payments without fees is criminal -- but the subscription complaint has always been weak.