[Arkhaine_kupo]

> wanted to silence their political opponents in the past administration

Literally when? Bezos bought a newspaper, Elon bought Twitter, Trump was on TV daily (and not being prosecuted by the DOJ), Ben Shapiro was again the most promoted video network in facebook, RFK was spreading misinformation left and right and is now telling the worls that autistic people can never pay taxes while Elon pays his salary.

Like name 1 person who was silenced? it is literally impossible to not hear the constant, incessant, child like whinning. you can have the senate, congress, the supreme court and the presidency and still act like victims. Crash the economy and its always someone elses fault.

Accountability is perhaps a value you should cherish more than silence, cant have that can we

[Saline9515]

I mean, we are coming out of a decade of cancel culture on campuses[0]. Elon Musk was clearly radicalized by it, which led him to buy Twitter.

Jordan Peterson's fame was partly due to him standing up in front of the obligation to use various pronouns at work, with the threat of getting fired.[1]

[0] https://archive.is/6zyUA

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37875695

[ryandrake]

This whole thread reminds me of the "I Have Been Silenced!" cartoon[1].

1: https://leftycartoons.com/2018/08/01/i-have-been-silenced/

[Arkhaine_kupo]

> we are coming out of a decade of cancel culture on campuses

You should read your own article. A drunk dude kissed a girl without asking, and his friends thought that was kinda shit an uninvited him to a christmas party. That is the cancel culture that is "silencing" people?

Nigel Farage is on TV day in and day out lying about things but one white dude from Oxford uni got univited to a christmas dinner...

> Elon Musk was clearly radicalized by it,

No he wasn't. There are plenty of theories about Elon Musk descent but none of them stem from any real pushback against cancel culture. His image began being tarnished with him calling a dude who saved some kids a pe do over not using his submarine. When he bought Twitter he made the point he wasn't gonna change much etc, 3 months after purchasing it he said he was not interested in politics and would not donate to any candidate, then he donated 400 million to Donald Trump's campaign.

Whether you wanna go down the route that his daughter being trans affected him, his friendship with epstein and Maxwell, his open ketamine use, or his ties to Russia (such as allowing Russia to use starlink, or cutting Ukraine off in parts of the conflict) its hard to know when and were he went from "i love the lgbt, green energy and im iron man" to "im gonna retweet neo nazis talking about replacement theory". But it has nothing to do with cancel culture.

> Jordan Peterson's fame was partly due to him standing up in front of the obligation to use various pronouns at work, with the threat of getting fired.[1]

That is not true. The law in Canada did not even say that. He was famous because post Obama the number of conservative causes was dwindiling and a number of think tanks found trans issues to be a perfect powder keg (they use similar reasoning Nazi's did when they burned trans research in the 30s). Its small, polirising, nuanced and most people have never seen or interacted with trans people or issues. It has a great ability to mold the talking points without any input from the actual people being discussed (its the same issue they love Fetuses and pregnant women, you can say anything without the fetus ever contradicting you).

In this push of think tanks he was used as a standard bearer, and given way more attention and money than any of his points ever deserved. The anti feminist videos on youtube, and a man on a suit disucissing against overly emotional 18 year olds became an entire genre of bad faith arguments (on both sides of the aisle, there are now plenty of "owning trump voters" content).

He then wrote a book about doing your bed, some insanely inacurate attempts at jungian psychology to impress 15 year olds and the money to push his videos on youtube did the rest.

The reality of a figure like Peterson is that he is a very flawed, and intellectually limited individual. His work on semiotics is super interesting but outside of his niche field he is clearly out of depth. His own personal failings, despite humanising him, make for a tragic figure when you realise many young men who are lost look up to him.

I have 0 issue with someone promoting some version of neo stoicism and how being a man should be, but when you get addicted to benzos and fly to russia to give yourself permanent brain damage because you are too much of a wuss to survive the withdrawl symptons then you should drop your philosphy because it clearly does not work.

[Saline9515]

I read the article, it goes in depth to explain cancel culture in campus, its origins, has various testimonies. Cancelling and censorship is a classic of anglo puritanism, which you represent well in this discussion.

Same for Peterson, you can argue as you want, the article says that he would be fined for not calling someone with their invented pronouns. And yes, that's how he got famous since it gave him media coverage. I'm not discussing his intellectual merits here, but freedom of speech. I don't think that you have the ability to separate topics, so it's kind of pointless.

Trans issues are a very good case of why we need freedom of speech, and why threatening to kill people who do not agree with you is rather bad? It deals with underaged people at a time they are vulnerable, the evidence regarding the treatments is rather weak and it was ultra marginal before media gave it a large positive coverage.

And yes, a father saying that his daughter shouldn't have to share showers or toilets with biological men is totally reasonable in his freedom of speech to say it.

[Arkhaine_kupo]

> it goes in depth to explain cancel culture in campu

which is why it opens up with its most harrowing tale, to really grip the readers attention. The black tie christmas invites of upper middle class chemical undergrads

> the article says that he would be fined for not calling someone with their invented pronouns.

the law however did not. It was adding gender expression to the list of protected categories. Which their neighbours in america had since 1964. No one in america in 1965 was being fined for not using made up pronouns, they just werent fired for being openly gay.

Bill C-16 has a wikipedia page and its super easy to read, the fact that Jordan peterson was bad at reading, is no excuse for you to follow suit.

> I'm not discussing his intellectual merits here,

would make for a short discussion

> It deals with underaged people at a time they are vulnerable,

Its funny you birng up anglo puritanism and then throw a random "will someone think of the children" plea.

99% of trans issues have nothing to do with minors, gender dysphoria can start in puberty but most pathological symptoms tend to become needing of intervention in early twenties mid twenties.

access to work, home, education, healthcare and public spaces are most of the concerns of trans people. A population who have shown absolutely no historical pattern of problematic behaviour, whose research shows repeatedly that they are normal humans and whose ostracising has led to countless problems both for them and people around them.

Its not that different from the left handed hate from years ago. And tying kids hands behind their back and forcing them to be right handed caused stuttering, suicides and long term education problems. not sure how denying that trans people exist is not gonna end up just as badly.

> the evidence regarding the treatments is rather weak

in what universe? Lets start with some stats, 96% of people do not regret transitioning which is the highest acceptance rate of any medical treatment (people who had transplants of live saving organs regret at 6-8% for example)

transitioning has shown to reduce suicide rates by 300% of people who suffer from gender dysphoria. reduced depression on similar rates.

Happiness surverys show overall increase in life satisfaction post transition for people suffering from gender dysphoria.

Like what "evidence" are we missing, when the treatments have been known for a century and the results are conclusive on every single country that offers them?

> it was ultra marginal before media gave it a large positive coverage.

You have it backwards. it is still ultra marginal and the media who started covering it was not positive, it was a orchestrated think tank choice to go after trans rights. It began in 2013 when overall american opinion on gay rights flipped, suddenly going after gay marriage was a vote loser instead of winner so they pivoted to trans rights. Groups like Atlas, or the heritage foundation have open papers on it. Same with other terms like DEI or Critical Race Theory they are all openly created narratives by think tanks with predicated interests that extend far beyond the thing being attacked.

> And yes, a father saying that his daughter shouldn't have to share showers or toilets with biological men is totally reasonable in his freedom of speech to say it.

And I would love to see the explanation of what "biological male" means, cause I think 99% of people stopped reading biology in 4th grade and perhaps do not understand how complicated shit is.

Should we have someone in the door of showers and bathrooms doing check ups on which bits people have before they shower? Would a father be happier with her kid having her bits inspected "for her safety", cause that has happened. Bathroom laws in america meant that the police get called (usually on uglier women, or butch lesbian, poc women, hairy women, taller women) and they need to "prove" they can enter that bathroom.

also transmen exist, would a father be happy with someone who looks 100% like a man walking into the shower because of his assigned sex at birth?

Its almost like "totally reasonable" gets complicated fast, and you just let a dude walk into the loo and your daughter have her knickers inspected all to protect her from something that isnt happening. Great job dad

[Saline9515]

Sources for your allegations ? The statistics I saw, showed in contrary an increase in suicide rates. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11063965/

Even if it was lower, I'm not sure that it's the right treatment. Of course, cutting arms will solve most finger infections, but it isn't likely to be the best way to treat it.

By the way, UK supreme court defined what is a biological sex: the one you had when you were born. Sounds fascist, right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cvgq9ejql39t

And yes, if there are spaces for girls only, it's for a reason, and one of them is to keep perverts away. But I guess that the rights of those girls do not count, either.

[Arkhaine_kupo]

> Sources for your allegations ?

not an allegation. You should avoid big words if you dont know what they mean.

> The statistics I saw, showed in contrary an increase in suicide rates. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11063965/

Surgery is not a common part of transitioning. Transitioning treatment, which is what I said, is usually a process where the most common plans include hormone replacement therapy, puberty blockers and therapy and lifestyle changes.

If you want actual data on it there was a recent meta study "Suicide-Related outcomes following gender-affirming treatment: A review" by Danial Jackson.

They analysed 23 studies and almost all mention and quantify reduced suicidiliaty, from less ideation, to less attempts, to less overall suicides compared to control groups.

> Even if it was lower, I'm not sure that it's the right treatment

you might not but every doctor association has, and they agree it is.

> Of course, cutting arms will solve most finger infections, but it isn't likely to be the best way to treat it.

cool analogy, but taking reversible pills and going to therapy is not the same as chopping anything off

> UK supreme court defined what is a biological sex: the one you had when you were born.

yeah thats cool and all, except sex assigned at birth is wrong in 1/2000 cases. So 34,000 people in the UK had their sex changed by a doctor after the one they were born due to either error, intersex conditions or nonconclusive genital development.

Btw genital inspection is one 3 ways to "biologically" determine someones sex, the other two are chromosomal make up (XX, XY or intersex) and the third is Phenotipic developemnt (long hair and boobs or beard and bald). The judge does not explain which one he means, but none of those 3 categories are Binary they are all Binomial. I know its not important for the judge, but it is important for biology, so its perhaps important that he would know anything past Grade 6 biology before putting it on a ruling...

> if there are spaces for girls only, it's for a reason, and one of them is to keep perverts away.

and how does this work exactly? Like actually going through the implementation of it. You need to prove you belong in an all womens space, so someone inspects your bits to make sure you belong? Like a little girl wants to go to the loo, but she must first go through the V inspector to make sure she can pee sitting down?

Is this the pervert protected future you imagine?

Transmen going to women only spaces is also gonna be a shitshow regardless of what their birth certificate says

If this guy walked into any women's bathroom they would call the police

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/04/19/dsc_0636_slide-c...

There are almost 0 cases of transpeople being perverts, 99% of them just wanna live their life and just exist. If they go to women spaces is probably to escape from the same problems that women go to those spaces for.

Or do you think this girl is safe in a mens bathroom?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/euphoria-hbo/images/d/d4/H...

[DonHopkins]

Wow. Thanks for inspiring me to ask. Why haven't they covered this in South Park yet? It would make such a great episode.

Summary:

Jordan Peterson, after becoming a media figure, struggled severely with benzodiazepine (benzo) addiction (drugs like clonazepam, often prescribed for anxiety). In 2019-2020, his health sharply declined:

He had a severe physical and psychological dependency on benzodiazepines.

He reportedly developed "akathisia" — an intensely painful restlessness often associated with withdrawal or side effects.

After several unsuccessful treatments in North America, Peterson was taken to Russia by his family, where he underwent a medically induced coma and controversial detox procedures to try to end his benzo dependency.

Why Russia?

At the time, his family said that the treatment options available in the West were either not effective, too dangerous, or unavailable. Some reports indicated that the Russian clinic used unorthodox treatments — things that might not be approved or widely practiced in Canada or the U.S. The whole episode was seen by many critics and even supporters as deeply tragic and unsettling, especially for someone whose public message was based on personal responsibility, resilience, and stoic perseverance.

Outcome:

Peterson survived, but his recovery was long and painful. Later interviews (including one with his daughter, Mikhaila Peterson) showed him visibly frail. His cognitive sharpness, many observed, seemed noticeably impacted for some time afterward.

Jordan Peterson: Health Problems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson?utm_source=cha...

Jordan Peterson suffers year of 'absolute hell' and needs emergency treatment for drug addiction that forced him to withdraw from public life, daughter says:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/jordan-peter...

Controversial Scholar Jordan Peterson Treated for Addiction in Russia:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/02/10/controversial-scho...

Drug Experts on Jordan Peterson Seeking Treatment in Russia for Benzo Dependence:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/what-drug-experts-say-about-...

The Jordan Peterson Benzo Story — Terminology, Rapid Detox, and Media Coverage:

https://www.easinganxiety.com/post/the-jordan-peterson-benzo...