[echelon]

Xkcd hasn't been very political, but this is appropriate.

Regardless of your political persuasion, what's happening to folks here legally is doing irreparable harm to our country's image and standing.

We need researchers to remain competitive. China is putting out more advanced research in key sectors than we are. Most of the papers in AI that I read are from Chinese institutions.

If we think we can compete without immigration, we're going to find ourselves in a world of hurt.

And on the topic of free speech that predicated all of this: it's great that we get so offended by what other people say. It's the litmus test for how free our speech really is. Once we start punishing people for free speech, whatever their ideology or party affiliation may be, the same tactics can be used against us when the political tides turn. If you advocate for free speech and then do something like this, then you're not a free speech advocate.

[iugtmkbdfil834]

First generation immigrant here so I feel entitled enough to respond.

<< If we think we can compete without immigration, we're going to find ourselves in a world of hurt.

The issue has been gamed well by the political class. It does not help that 'both sides' use language to further confuse the issue and score points with their chosen audiences.

That said, why.. or even how, would an American worker compete on salary. That, you will find, is the source of most of the discontent. That the target of that discontent is amusingly misdirected is quite anothe matter altogether and speaks only to the strength of propaganda apparatus in US.

<< It's the litmus test for how free our speech really is.

True.

<< If you advocate for free speech and then do something like this, then you're not a free speech advocate.

Also true.

[rollcat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came

[KikoHeit]

Don't you think having terror supporters in the country is causing an "irreparable harm" too?

[echelon]

That's 100% orthogonal.

1. There are plenty of US citizens that say the same things

2. This demonstrates that anything that runs afoul of whatever party is in charge will subject an immigrant to extra-judicial removal without due process. That's a scary precedent, and people all over the world are watching and learning that America is not a safe place to hinge your future on.

Regardless of how you feel about this person, there are other levers and mechanisms. Impinging upon freedom of speech in a country that prides itself upon it and revoking legal residential status is scary.

Telling someone you disagree with or even hate their ideas and their politics is one thing. Removing their rights and crushing decades of their work and their future fitness envelope - built on countless opportunity costs, some of them based on "choosing America" - is quite another.

I don't care if the person is pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, pro-LGBT, pro-MRA, pro-Scientology, pro-Church of Satan. We should not damage the American brand. We should not impinge upon our laws and constitution.

Everyone in the world should want to come here, and we should be able to take our pick of the hardest workers and brightest minds. Some of those people are Israeli, some of those people are Palestinian and Muslim, some of those people are Chinese. We should be able to get them all and grow stronger. We're supposed to be a melting pot.

You want to know another thing that's orthogonal to our discussion? I don't think we're in this place of hate naturally. I think the platforms and the marketers and the engagement algorithms and the coordinated psyops have put us here. I think people are mostly kind (or at worst neutral) to one another. We've got a whole lot of battles to fight if we want to avoid extreme polarization ripping us apart.

[mrguyorama]

This country was literally founded on terrorism oops, sorry, "revolutionaries"

Many founding fathers had strong ties to the smuggling industry, the Boston Tea party was the kind of vandalism that would put you in prison for life now, and there was constant and brutal aggression towards loyalist citizens including stealing their land and physically assaulting them.

No amount of Hamas chants will harm the US. Hamas is only effective in Palestine because people are outright propagandized and have almost zero hope for their lives. Or they are literal children.

Funny, the last time we got all antsy about teenagers chanting stuff on college campuses, several children were shot by the national guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

Seems to me, the threat isn't actually teenagers.

In fact, if you ask the FBI, the threat has consistently been white dudes with guns trying to do things like bomb federal buildings, do hate crimes, and attempt to abduct a sitting US state governor.

Should we deport all white guys with guns? I'll tell my brother to pack his stuff.

[beeflet]

By "terror supporters", do you mean anyone who bad-mouths our greatest ally?

[tastyface]

Yes, I think we should probably deport or imprison anyone who breaks into the Capitol to overthrow the lawfully elected government.

Oh wait, not those kinds of terror supporters? Just student Gaza protestors and Tesla vandals?

[ActorNightly]

>Once we start punishing people for free speech, whatever their ideology or party affiliation may be, the same tactics can be used against us when the political tides turn.

This is with the underlying ideal that neither side has the right answers. Which was true back in the era of sane politics.

Except this doesn't really apply anymore, as we know that one side is objectively stupid, and with the modern age, there is zero to none fact checking or social responsibility.

In the same way that there are restrictions to free speech in yelling fire in a crowded movie theater, there absolutely should be restrictions on anything having to do with the popular right talking points, with appropriate jail time, as those fall into the same category now, with people taking Ivermectin for Covid and dying because Joe Rogan told them so.

And if the laws are in place, and the wrong party ever takes charge again and uses those laws against you, that should be a motivator to not let that party take hold in the first place.