[cortesoft]

Am I the only coder who has never really felt the desire to "be my own boss" and get rich from coding?

I was so against the idea, actually, that I avoided majoring in CS because I didn't want to ruin my favorite hobby by doing it professionally.

It wasn't until a few years after I graduated with my philosophy degree and couldn't find a career that I decided to try writing code for a living.

It's been great for me for almost 20 years now, and thankfully I still love to code for fun even though I do it all day professionally, but I have not felt the pull to try to form my own startup and try to get rich.

My favorite part of coding is having a problem and then figuring out how to solve it with the tools I have. I love working as a programmer because that is what I do all day, and someone pays me really good money to do it.

And I don't have to worry about all the other stuff like business models or funding or getting customers or talking to people, I just get a problem and do my favorite thing to solve it.

And I have more time to do other things because I am not hustling or trying to get rich.

[999900000999]

I like programming for my friends. The moment money gets involved it goes to shit. Idea guys want you to program for free , and offer you something like 1% vested over 5 years.

They have you sign NDAs before you start working. The ideas are all really really stupid.

I do have my ideas, but I’m also humble enough to just accept I’ll probably never make any real money. I self taught my way straight to 6 figures ( back in 2016 when that still meant something). That’s enough really…

[cortesoft]

Yeah, I don't want to code for equity, either. I just want to code for a flat paycheck, with maybe an equity bonus. I have been able to do this for 18 years now.

[brulard]

First thing for wannabe enterpreneurs to learn is that allmost all your ideas are shit, and those that are good still need a lot of luck and the best execution to get somewhere. How many good ideas didn't work for first startups that came with it, but worked for someone else years later?

[999900000999]

I'm fine with building out stupid ideas, for one of two reasons.

One, we've been friends for a minimum of 5 years and I sincerely like you as a person.

Two, you pay me.

At least twice I've had situations where I basically need someone at a bar or something and within a week they're sending me a bunch of specs to program out something that will require a small team to do properly. Then when you do hack out a small prototype it's not good enough.

At this point in my life, I'd rather work on my own solo projects if anything. I'll release the code MIT and if someone smarter than me wants to make money off it they can

[brulard]

I'm there with you. So many times I have heard this, what a great opportunity for me: build another guys (I have met 5 minutes ago) idea. It's simple, just a clone of (youtube|twitter|foursquare|...) with a little twist. It will certainly make me rich, because I can have a small fraction share of the project. Salary? No, that's for losers. We are going to make it big.

[999900000999]

Even then, if you want to at least cut me in as an equal partner I think I'd be more inclined to build out your project. But that's not what I get, I get you and your other partners keep 97% of it, and at most I'll get 2% to 3% for building the whole thing.

[dalmo3]

You're in the 99%. It's just that the other 1% write all the blog posts.

[platevoltage]

I never thought that I would "be my own boss" after making the moves needed to go beyond just being a hobbyist, but I was quickly shown that I'm essentially unemployable.

It's been 2 years, and I can proudly say that i'm finally making more money than I did delivering packages on a bicycle in SF, which isn't much.

Getting rich was never in the cards for me, but not having to answer to a tyrannical boss every day is definitely a positive. Coming from a blue-collar background, that's pretty much the norm, and that sentiment has stuck with me.

[cortesoft]

What makes you "essentially unemployable"?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Speaking only for myself, I never wanted to be rich. It would have been nice to have the money, but I never wanted to make the sacrifices necessary.

I also didn't want to be used by some predator, to make them rich. I found a [less-than-perfect, but OK] company to work for, that had values I liked, and stayed there, for a long time. I got to hang with the really cool kids. I mean the ones that were so cool, no one knew who they were, because they didn't care about being cool. They just liked doing what they were doing, and they were the best at it.

I was the dumbest kid in the room, and I'm smarter than the average bear. I also got to play with some very cool toys.

But I was a manager, for most of that time, and I didn't want to give up coding. I didn't have a "shower clause" in my employment contract, so I spent a great deal of my extracurricular time, doing open-source stuff. I had an organization that could use my skills, so I worked with them.

Eventually, the cool ride was over (after almost 27 years), and I found myself ready to roll up my sleeves, and help make someone else rich.

But no one wanted me, so I was forced to retire, and I've never been happier.

I was just talking about this, yesterday, to a friend of mine, who sold his company, and is getting set to become a Man of Leisure. He's like me. He needs something to do, and I suspect that he'll do something cool.

I mentioned how upset I was, when I figured out that no one wanted me, but, after a year or so of following my own muse, I realized that I had been working at a state of chronic, low-grade misery, for over 30 years. I probably work harder now, than I ever did, drawing a salary, and I absolutely love it. This is what I've been working on, for the last month or so[0]. Still have a ways to go, but it's coming along great, and I've been learning a lot.

Here's a post that I wrote, some time ago, about how I like to approach things[1].

[0] https://github.com/RiftValleySoftware/ambiamara/tree/master/...

[1] https://littlegreenviper.com/miscellany/thats-not-what-ships...

[test1235]

> I didn't have a "shower clause" in my employment contract

what's a shower clause?

EDIT:

"That’s the clause that says your employer owns every idea that you come up with in the shower."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24585399

[charlie0]

I don't want to be rich either, but it would be awesome to FIRE before I'm 65.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

It was never a goal of mine, but I found out I could, at 55.

It would have been nice, to have the extra decade of salary, but c’est la vie…

[cortesoft]

You can do that on a normal salary, too.

[riehwvfbk]

But only if you get incredibly lucky. Even in the Bay Area where many an employee became a millionaire the chance of that being you is still a single digit percentage.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Not just luck. Self-discipline, structure, and sacrifice are necessary.

Living frugally, deferring (or avoiding) purchases, saving a substantial percentage, etc., was important for me.

Also, the world around us, changes.

In my entire career, I never made more than what some kids make, coming right out of school, these days.

The same for my father. He never made more than about $50K, his entire life, yet had a half-acre house in Potomac, two cars, and a stay-at-home wife.

[ludicrousdispla]

I'm wondering what a "shower clause" would be in a contract and hoping it's not a Silkwood reference.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

No. It's the clause that is common in tech contracts, where any idea that you come up with, "in the shower," belongs to the company.

It prevents things like moonlighting, or doing charity work.

I worked for a company that employed a lot of top-notch photographers, and there's no way that they would have agreed to anything like that.

[ludicrousdispla]

oh yeah, the 'no intellectually rewarding hobbies' clause ... that has always seemed counterproductive and short-sighted from my perspective

[brulard]

I think a mindset to "get rich" or even worse "get rich quickly" is reallt bad for everyone even outside tech. There is certain amount of wealth you need so you need not to worry about food, shelter, kids, education, health, etc, that's all right, but beyond that it's just getting destructive. When do you feel "rich enough" already? $1M? $100M? If you don't worry about getting rich and just be ok with being mid-class, you can code whatever you like. Even without getting single dime from the hobby code you will learn a lot, you will get good with tools and quick to find solutions, easier to be employed and progress in your career. And I would believe happier in the long run.

[mastazi]

I'm the same, I started coding as a kid on an Amiga 500. But I never thought it would become my job. I studied a degree in communication and worked as a journalist first, then as a press agent. Later I decided to move to a different country where I could not work in PR or journalism due to language barriers so I went back to programming. Eventually I even went back to Uni and got a degree in IT because I felt that I had some knowledge gaps due to being self-taught. Going back to uni in my mid 30s was actually a cool experience (despite the fact that I had to study & work at the same time).

[nottorp]

> try to form my own startup and try to get rich

You don't have to do the kind of startup that is worshipped here on HN.

[protocolture]

You wanted to get rich in the philosophy mines while coding as a hobby?

Be cool if you pulled it off.

[cortesoft]

My plan was to be a stand up philosopher