[jchw]

Call it what you want, but it's just disrespectful and unnecessary. I'm sure we've all fucked up somewhere and didn't attribute something correctly, but I feel like once it's been brought to your attention, it's just silly to not at least acknowledge it (especially if people are paying you to work on it). In this case, it's a somewhat serious licensing issue even if it is unlikely to lead to any actual legal action.

Stolen valor isn't really literal theft either, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do it.

[jillyboel]

Okay, sure. But the question is what harm is being done. Am I understanding you correctly that your answer is that there is none?

[saagarjha]

Would you accept any definition of harm short of money being lost or someone beating you with a club?

[jillyboel]

So far I'm just waiting for any definition.

[saagarjha]

You got examples and didn't like them. That's fine, that just means people won't indulge you anymore.

[jillyboel]

Can you clarify what examples of harm have been provided? Disrespecting someone is not harming them, if that is what you're getting at? Your comment is quite disrespectful towards my genuine question which you refuse to answer, and yet, I am not harmed. In fact, I am amused, since it's clear you don't have a real answer and are just resorting to ad hominem attacks instead.

[saagarjha]

No, I'm going to let 'jchw do it for me, because they are more patient than I would have been and make me thankful I didn't go down that route. I don't really want to engage with someone whose argument is "there's no harm because the harm is plagiarism and according to OpenAI plagiarism is OK".

[jchw]

I'm more curious what your definition of harm is.

(To be clear, this is a completely pointless tangent, "harm" has nothing to do with whether or not you should condone plagiarism. But you seem rather interested in discussing it, so I am kind of curious what answer you're actually looking for.)

[jillyboel]

I'm specifically asking you (and other HNers) what definition of harm you think applies here. I'm still waiting.

As for not condoning plagiarism, grow up. We're not kids in school anymore. You're (hopefully) an adult who graduated already.

If you're so against plagiarism, how do you feel about LLMs plagiarizing the whole internet? Didn't all the techbros collectively decide for us that this is the future we want?

[jchw]

> I'm specifically asking you (and other HNers) what definition of harm you think applies here. I'm still waiting.

Well, now I asked for yours, and I'm also still waiting.

> As for not condoning plagiarism, grow up. We're not kids in school anymore. You're (hopefully) an adult who graduated already.

Look, man, I'm not saying we should go kill people for committing plagiarism, I don't think this is the worst thing ever, but it definitely reflects a lack of integrity even if the original authors explicitly don't care. It's dishonest and can put the legal status of a software library into genuine question.

i.e. I care if people lie to me even if the lie doesn't matter that much.

And it is not just a thing in school. Anyone who publishes or really writes anything (e.g. books, video scripts, blog posts, etc.) can ruin their career through plagiarism. It's a cultural faux pas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

> If you're so against plagiarism, how do you feel about LLMs plagiarizing the whole internet? Didn't all the techbros collectively decide for us that this is the future we want?

That's a whole other can of worms.

[iczero]

Your code is my code actually. I wrote all of it. Where's the harm?

[jillyboel]

have fun