[ohgr]

Aktion T4 next? This is a dark dark road.

I suspect the US will become like Germany in the next few decades where the paranoia about handing any data over is justifiably high. I hope this burns the unethical side of the tech industry to the ground. It deserves it.

[ZeroGravitas]

It was notable that he started with "these people will never pay taxes" when announcing this.

[pwdisswordfishz]

*looks at Elon Musk*

I suppose he has a point.

[ben_w]

Half of that point occurred to me too. While I have not considered how much taxes Musk actually pays, I do remember this from my school history lessons 25 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röhm_scandal

[cruzcampo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life#/media/F...

This poster (published in the NSDAP's Office of Racial Policy's monthly magazine Neues Volk around 1938) urges support for Nazi eugenics to control the public expense of sustaining people with genetic disorders. The poster says: "This person who suffers a hereditary disease has a lifelong cost of 60,000 Reichsmarks to the National Community. Fellow German, that is your money as well."

[K0nserv]

Already the US can serve as a good example when discussing the need for unbreakable cryptography and e2e systems. The current decline nicely illustrates how quickly you can go from "The police have legitimate needs to break encryption to find heinous criminals" to something far more dystopian.

[goku12]

No amount of crypto is going to protect you from this mess. Technical safeguards work as long as it is backed by the law and the constitution. But when they are suppressed, the people in power will just find someone smarter than you and bribe, gaslight, bully, blackmail or beat them into helping them compromise such safeguards. And not to mention the fact that they love playing hideous psyops games. This is a social and political problem. You need social and political solutions. Technical solutions are just band-aids.

[K0nserv]

> No amount of crypto is going to protect you from this mess. Technical safeguards work as long as it is backed by the law and the constitution. But when they are suppressed, the people in power will just find someone smarter than you and bribe, gaslight, bully, blackmail or beat them into helping them compromise such safeguards.

I don't agree. Having unbreakable crypto is the absence of a tool. My point is that a democratic government can create the tool with good intentions, but you are only one election and a few months of backsliding away from the tool being used for nefarious purposes. You are right that technical solutions are just band-aids, but if you never create the tool it cannot be abused by a new authoritarian government.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

True, while not panacea, there is a reason why 'going dark' was perceived as an issue.

[goku12]

What makes you think this isn't it? I know that the primary reason for his fixation with autism is to attack vaccines. But have you listened to him talk about autistic people? It's pretty clear that he considers autistic individuals as unproductive (the tax remark) burden who destroys families. It's very clear that he considers them as subhuman. Sounds very close to 'life unworthy of life' argument made by the Nazis. While at it, the Nazis also had a register of disabled people and used the 'economic burden' argument to sell the idea of mass murder. Honestly, I'm struggling to find a difference here. To understand the full scale of the danger, this is how the Holocaust originated - with the murder of a single child in 1939 under their involuntary euthanasia program for disabled children. It gradually made the system comfortable with mass murder as the scope of the program expanded to teens, then adults and to whole races in the end. That's exactly what I see now as well - people tolerating more and more transgressions that would have been unthinkable just a year ago!

People sometimes tend to shutdown comparison of any situation with Nazism using the hideous Godwin's law. Apparently it's a sacrilege towards the Holocaust victims to compare their plight with any emerging threats. But there is no guarantee that the horrors of the past won't repeat in the future. In fact, that is one of the reasons we learn history - to recognize the repeating patterns of similar mistakes. And I think the situation is very perilous already. Perhaps I'm paranoid. But remember that people are arbitrarily getting deported to some foreign detention camp and judges are being arrested within 3 months of this regime coming into power. How long before we find ourselves haunted by the dreadful events of the past?

[brightball]

Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism?

My life is pretty close to this community and I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate.

Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a group home most likely.

Others who cannot handle the demands as caregiver and simply get divorced over it. Some who call CPS because they can’t handle the danger that their child poses to their other children. Some who are flight risks that will literally just take off running (usually right to bodies of water) given the chance, putting parents completely on guard.

These are just a few of the issues before getting into “the autism diet” and chronic digestive issues. The fact that somehow a gluten free, casein free diet usually results in significant behavioral improvements leading many people to suspect that what we’re eating environmentally is contributing to the problem.

RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them. If you had any idea the number of parents who are afraid to tell you when the symptoms started because they know you don’t want to believe them, it would shock you.

If you want to know what most people in the community believe is the root cause, it’s aluminum.

I realize that all things associated Trump are destined to get this crazy narrative but RFK Jr has been fighting for these families for at least 20 years. His desire to help people is genuine and not something in question.

[antifa]

> Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism?

He was an environmental lawyer, not a doctor or scientist, so no.

> RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them

It's far more likely (and reasonable to believe) that his brainstorm is an alien entity attempting to weaken the human race for an upcoming invasion, or he's a foreign asset for geopolitical reasons, or he's the biblical Pestilence Horseman of the Apocalypse, than that he's a voice that represents people in the autism community.

Just look at his history. He's caused/causing multiple measles outbreaks. He's already a massmurderer.

[goku12]

> Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism?

Has he? That 'cure' part makes it pretty clear what his background with autism is. He has no clue about it. It's certainly not a disease nor a brain injury that can be cured. And it's too complex to be caused by something like a vaccine. All I see is that he has a particular disdain for autistic people and he wants to use autism to target something else - perhaps vaccines.

> My life is pretty close to this community

Do you have an academic or professional background on the condition? Or are you someone with autism? If so, you may claim some credibility. There are even associations of parents of autistic kids who spout pseudo-scientific nonsense about autism. And they routinely get fact-checked and opposed by associations of autistic people themselves.

> I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate.

CDC falls under HHS, right? They published the results about a week ago and it clearly said that the higher incidence of autism is due to improved diagnosis. And then he went on to trash those findings publicly. Why should I believe a career politician over a whole bunch of career medical professionals on this? Considering his past and political stance as well, he has exactly zero credibility on this matter.

> Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a group home most likely.

Am I to assume that you're a parent of an autistic kid? If so, let me warn you now. You're doing something more harmful to your kid than what you described. And one more thing. Your view of autism is still very narrow. What you're describing is level 3 autism at best. Some symptoms don't even sound like autism, and could be some other condition. You should perhaps check with a specialist or a level 1 autistic to learn what autism really is and what it feels like (higher level kids often find it hard to communicate their feelings).

> Some who call CPS because they can’t handle the danger that their child poses to their other children.

Very much on point with what I said above. Harmful and hurtful behavior is not an autistic symptom. That sounds more like a cluster-B personality disorder. Not that they can't coexist, but this is a very harmful stereotype. But I'm not surprised.

> These are just a few of the issues before getting into “the autism diet” and chronic digestive issues.

Autism is a neuro-developmental condition. Autistic brains are wired differently, if you will. There are many environmental factors that influence autistic people's behavior - albeit temporarily. Food is one of the less important ones among them. And if you think it is a cure, you are in for big disappointment.

> RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them.

Instead of a politician vying for attention, you should try to understand your kid first. If they have difficulty expressing it, try to talk to a specialist or someone with more verbal autism. They are very common - that's why the 1 in 31 statistics. Then you may get some idea about what to really focus on.

> If you had any idea the number of parents who are afraid to tell you when the symptoms started because they know you don’t want to believe them, it would shock you.

I have investigated various matters throughout my career. That statement has all the symptoms of confirmation bias. The way to get an unbiased result is to do a large-scale, randomized (double-)blind study. You need quantified data, not emotional anecdotes. And if you have something specific in mind and the quantified info to back it up, then we can discuss. Otherwise, those assertions are moot. And for that matter, do you know that these symptoms are extremely hard to identify in infants? The timing of recognition of those symptoms is a rather unreliable indicator for anything.

And remember what I said before - a lot of autistic parents' associations are in the business of spreading misinformation. They're widely opposed and debunked by associations of autistic people themselves.

> If you want to know what most people in the community believe is the root cause, it’s aluminum.

Let me guess. The adjuvant in vaccines? I know where that comes from. If you fancy your own research, try searching up the research papers on that topic. Pay special attention to the authors and the citations. Then check the affiliations of those authors, including funding sources. That will tell you a very enlightening story. To summarize the technical argument, the aluminum used in vaccines don't reach neurotoxic levels even for infants.

> His desire to help people is genuine and not something in question.

His actions at the HHS indicate otherwise. I would rather trust the qualified career medical professionals and researchers he fired. And let's not forget the disastrous way in which he's handling the measles outbreak. I can see how you're emotionally invested in this matter. But please don't assume that the people on the other side aren't.

[jaybrendansmith]

That takedown was boss. Thank you. As a parent of two autistic children, and uncle to many more in my family, I can say that it is clear their minds develop differently, and many high-functioning autists successfully mask it and make it later in life. And these are quite often extremely gifted intellectually and academically, to the degree that while life is a struggle for them socially, they are far better than their 'norm' peers in other areas. I've not seen anything from RFK Jr beyond trying to support his anti-vaccine stance and what I would at best call evidence for 'othering' autistic people. And if he thinks he is going to make them victims, I can assure you he will find myself, my family, and the community at large ready and eager to destroy him. One could make a more coherent argument that we should create a database of those who lack empathy, the narcissistic sociopaths among us, and place them in camps and let them tear each other apart.

[brightball]

It really wasn’t any sort of “takedown”. It was the same stuff people have been saying on the internet for years that’s disconnected from what is reality for so many parents.

[cycrutchfield]

It absolutely refuted every inane speculation you made. I understand you clearly aren’t here to listen or change your mind, so it unfortunately passed right over your head.

[goku12]

> As a parent of two autistic children, and uncle to many more in my family, I can say that it is clear their minds develop differently, and many high-functioning autists successfully mask it and make it later in life. And these are quite often extremely gifted intellectually and academically, to the degree that while life is a struggle for them socially, they are far better than their 'norm' peers in other areas.

This is one of the most uplifting thing I have heard in a while! Your children and the autistic kids in your family are very lucky to have such insightful, empathetic and caring adults like you around. Your presence make a huge difference in their lives. And as they grow up, they'll gift you a lot of unexpectedly sweet and proud moments. Good Luck!

> And if he thinks he is going to make them victims, I can assure you he will find myself, my family, and the community at large ready and eager to destroy him.

That's a very heartwarming and empowering statement! Some people argue that high-functioning autistics shouldn't talk for low-functioning autistics. But the autistic and the medical communities doesn't hold that distinction. Only 3 levels of disabilities exist. When I see the 'low-functioning' autistic people, I recognize in them the intense versions of the emotions and feelings that I'm all too painfully familiar with. That's why I decided to make an impassioned stance here. Yes! I'm seriously concerned about the safety and welfare of my peers - the only people I could ever understand.

All this dogma, greed and misinformation threatens the lives of millions of kids, a huge number of very innocent individuals and the very roots of the knowledge and profession we held dear throughout our lives. I don't know why some people hold on to false promises and rhetoric. But the final result of that is recorded very clearly in history. If only they did a bit of research on that too. It's very disturbing that many still can't see the very obvious danger signs. However, the stakes are too high to just watch and worry. Now is the time our voices and actions matter!

I'm bowing out of this debate. I have no illusions of being able to break people out of their artificial realities. But I think I made the point I wanted to - to record a sample of the false information about autism out there and its hollowness. Thank you again for being a decent and awesome human being! I hope we will have more allies like you. Thanks!

[brightball]

> I have investigated various matters throughout my career. That statement has all the symptoms of confirmation bias. The way to get an unbiased result is to do a large-scale, randomized (double-)blind study. You need quantified data, not emotional anecdotes. And if you have something specific in mind and the quantified info to back it up, then we can discuss. Otherwise, those assertions are moot. And for that matter, do you know that these symptoms are extremely hard to identify in infants? The timing of recognition of those symptoms is a rather unreliable indicator for anything.

If you have investigated then you already understand the biggest challenge to double blind studies here: control groups because of the variety of issues on the spectrum and the difficulty in measuring the severity of each of them. There’s a doctor in Indiana who’s been trying to categorize them all and has it narrowed to about 140 or so. It’s not an easy group to run studies on.

Autism is very much a digestive issue. People who just observe the behaviors without being close to treatment believe it’s purely neurological.

The core issue with everything you’re saying is that we have an information vacuum. With cancer, for example, we as a society are more than comfortable saying almost everything causes cancer. With autism, we’re not allowed to even speculate publicly. If we do it’s a simple “I don’t know what causes it but it’s DEFINITELY not the thing that I don’t want to believe is involved.”

Autism is a spectrum and there are a lot of severe cases. The severe cases often result in exactly what I’m describing above. Therapy helps in most cases but the experience described above is very real. In many cases it’s much less severe and kids are mainstreamed with some social awkwardness. The violent outbursts described in a scenario above, again, aren’t in most situations but they do happen consistently for some certain kids and when they do it’s a nightmare.

It’s not harmful to tell the truth, but it is to ignore it.

The problem with watching this discussion in real time on social media is seeing people who know one or two people who have a child who is autistic and that shapes their entire perspective. The parents who have children who are more severe on the spectrum often have very few people who know them because just the idea of time to socialize with others is often difficult to obtain.

The information vacuum is very real though and until we get a definitive answer on the cause of autism, people are going to speculate. You watch discussion of it be suppressed for over a decade and it creates trust issues.

[LexiMax]

> With autism, we’re not allowed to even speculate publicly. If we do it’s a simple “I don’t know what causes it but it’s DEFINITELY not the thing that I don’t want to believe is involved.”

I think that communication could be improved on both sides.

I have had non-confrontational and earnest discussions with the kinds of people who believe vaccines cause autism. I couldn't escape the conclusion I eventually arrived at - these sorts of people started with a gut feeling or belief and worked backwards to find the justification for it.

This realization is what I feel is missing from a lot of science communication. People who are distrustful of the science aren't going to be swayed by more science unless it dovetails with their underlying gut feelings - so assuming that you can simply out-evidence any concerns is a fools errand.

But by the same token, if critics want a productive conversation, I think it's incumbent on them to be more honest about where their concerns are rooted. What is it about vaccines that makes them predisposed to not want to have them?

[Tireings]

I agree generally but I hope we make as much real anonymous health data available for research.

Google is certified and runs the biggest medical database with (I believe without googling this) the biggest hospital operator in the USA.

I have a condition which is rare enough that it doesn't get enough funding and data is missing

[mschuster91]

> Google is certified

That doesn't matter _at all_ when the government comes knocking at Google's door - in the best case, they have a subpoena that can at least be appealed afterwards, in the worst case it's DOGE teens backed by a bunch of heavily armed guys in camouflage.

[ohgr]

Indeed. No data is safe or secure in such environments.

This has become an issue big enough that the US company I work for is actually removing data from US cloud providers to make it harder to get at. The European divisions have started data sovereignty projects because it's now a principal risk.

I'm out of the cloud as well.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

Ha. My company was advising having a burner phone when traveling to US in a company-wide meeting. There has been something of a shift.

[ohgr]

Yeah similar. My company is US and have banned all travel to US. Said we can do stuff over Teams instead.

[croes]

Didn’t they already show that these data can’t really be anonymized if it should still be useful?

[ohgr]

I would leave that in the hands of professionals though.

Which is evidentially not this lot. Not even remotely.