[sswatson]

The phrase "solely one of birthright" suggests the diminishment of the citizenship of certain people. That is not how citizenship works: no one is less of a citizen than anyone else.

The most objectionable part here — by far — is not the deportation of the parents, but the deportation of citizens and the lack of due process.

The alternative being proposed is that if ICE is going to deport the parents of US citizen children, the parents should be given the opportunity to seek legal counsel regarding how they're going to ensure care for their children.

[kadushka]

no one is less of a citizen than anyone else

This is not true - a citizen by birth can become the president, a naturalized citizen cannot.

[bryanrasmussen]

that's true, so basically they deported somebody that one day could become President!

[lawn]

They deported someone with (supposedly) more rights than Elon Musk.

[V-eHGsd_]

While true, I believe op was talking about with respect to the protections afforded by the law.

[threatofrain]

While true, one thing OP could be talking about is the spiritualism implied by that rule, and whether it finds catch in the American psychology.

[somenameforme]

In this case it's clear that the children were not literally deported. The parents were given the choice of taking their children with them, or leaving them with social services, and they did what any half decent parent would do. So they ended up given a "free flight" on a plane full of people being deported, which blurs the difference - but it's obviously there. The issue is that the parents were not granted access to legal counsel, though that's a consequence of expedited removal [1], which dates back to Clinton.

I think this issue mostly emphasizes the highly unpleasant issues that unrestricted bithright citizenship causes. There's a reason literally no other advanced economy, besides Canada, has maintained such a thing. [1] And Canada is probably the outlier there due to being geographically protected from illegal immigration. Even if somebody e.g. boats over to North America, they're going to be much more likely to head towards the US than Canada.

I say maintained because it's self evident that birthright citizenship would have been a given in the times before big government, if not only because it couldn't not be a given. But basically everywhere desirable started getting rid of it once it started being abused. The entry on Ireland, the last country in Europe to eliminate unrestricted birthright citizenship, is interesting:

---

On 1 January 2005, the law was amended to require that at least one of the parents be an Irish citizen; a British citizen; a resident with a permanent right to reside in Ireland or in Northern Ireland; or a legal resident residing three of the last four years in the country (excluding students and asylum seekers) (see Irish nationality law).[64] The amendment was prompted by the case of Man Chen, a Chinese woman living in mainland United Kingdom who traveled to Belfast (Northern Ireland, part of the UK) to give birth in order to benefit from the previous rule whereby anyone born on any part of the island of Ireland was automatically granted Irish citizenship. The Chinese parents used their daughter's Irish (and thereby European Union) citizenship to obtain permanent residence in the UK as parents of a dependent EU citizen. Ireland was the last country in Europe to abolish unrestricted jus soli. (see Irish nationality law).[107]

---

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedited_removal

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#

[EasyMark]

I don't think it was meant to devalue their citizenship, but citizenship doesn't trump their safety or need to be with their parents. The parents are going to be deported for being here illegally, would you have the child be separated and put in a foster/community home? Emotions are important but the only pragmatic solution here is to deport all 3, if your nation's policy is deportation for being here illegally. I agree with that policy in general but not with the US policy of Trump of manhandling illegal aliens or their children. Nor do I agree the lawlessness of what they're doing currently by sending off "suspected gang members" without due process to what amount to torture camps in El Salvador.

[lawn]

Sentencing children to die as they can't receive proper medical care when deported is not in any way the best solution.

Unless of course your lack empathy and de-humanize people by calling them "aliens".

[chasd00]

What you’re really saying is you want this family broken up for the rage bait. You want the picture of a child crying for their mother as the plane takes off for the views.

[sixothree]

Fairly clear that is not the argument here.

[IG_Semmelweiss]

US hospitals do not have magical pixie dust to grant US citizenship.

This is why birthright as a legal concept is a diminishment of citizenship for all those who hold it.

Parents pass on the shared history, values, and national culture to their kids. Parents are those who give value to US citizenship.

Not coming out of a belly, that happens to be inside a US hospital.

[Erem]

US constitution thoughtfully disagrees with you, elevating presence on the land at birth over bloodline wrt citizenship.

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” -US Constitution, 14th Amendment

Quite literally, US hospitals do have that magic pixie dust because they are on the land of this country.

[IG_Semmelweiss]

>> and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Will need to be resolved.

Its not a coincidence that Switzerland is the longest-lasting democracy in the world by a factor of 4x, vs USA. Their framers had the foresight to enshrine their communities' common history, values, and culture.... over pixie dust.

[cycrutchfield]

It has been resolved, for over 125 years of precedent.

If you don’t know US history, why bother to show your ignorance so visibly?

[Revanche1367]

Ironically, his parents didn’t do a good enough job of passing on the shared history, values, and national culture of the US.

[roughly]

> Parents pass on the shared history, values, and national culture to their kids.

Except our nation’s shared history, values, and national culture is that we’re a nation of immigrants, a melting pot of global cultures, a refuge for those in need, and a place where anyone can come to seek their fortune, so obviously American parents haven’t been passing on those values to their children if we’re still having this debate, and I think the only fair response to that is to deport all the children who don’t meet your standards of citizenship, by which I mean the entire cohort that’s arguing all this is OK.

[shadowgovt]

To be blunt, America's children are getting a lot more of their shared cultural values from Bluey than their parents, so I think we could stand to pump the brakes on concern about whether children born in this country are as American as children born in this country to parents who were born in this country.

That way lies a very ugly argument about who is enough on the team. One that almost nobody who thinks themselves American wins, because the real winners of that argument should be the folks stuck into reservations by the alien ancestors of those who see themselves as "true Americans, born of Americans."

For Americans in particular, the best strategy for not having their own legitimacy challenged is definitely not to pull too hard on the legitimacy thread.

[roughly]

As maybe my favorite Twitter dunk of all time goes - “Ah yes, Jack Posobiec, of the Mayflower Posobiecs.”

[IG_Semmelweiss]

Yes. We are a nation of immigrants. But you are using the word "immigrant" very loosely. Illegal alien != immigrant. Today, the first 2 acts of an illegal alien arriving in this country are (1) breaking the law (2) lying on an application, another crime. This is wildly different from historical migrants.

In fact, all immigrants who came into this country, actually passed tests (education, work exp, english, etc) before being allowed in. Even in Ellis island at the height of the immigration boom, immigrants who could not support themselves, were sick, etc, were turned around [1]

So yes, we are a nation of immigrants, not a nation of illegal aliens

[1] https://www.nps.gov/elis/learn/historyculture/index.htm

[cycrutchfield]

US v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)

Wax poetic about nativism all you like, it won’t change the truth.

[saagarjha]

As a birthright citizen I think my parents did a whole lot better than yours at instilling American values.

[kj4211cash]

Do you really believe this? I've never met anyone opposed to birthright citizenship for the US. Our shared history, values, and national culture are all about immigration so this isn't computing for me. Plus the law seems settled on this issue, or at least was before Trump 2.0. I genuinely don't understand how thinking people can support the current administration's policies on numerous issues. Tried going to r/conservative, watching Fox News, etc. but it hasn't helped much to date.

[cycrutchfield]

It’s pretty easy to understand, you only need to look at which subset of immigrants they have a problem with. There’s one commonality with all of them, and it is (so to speak) only skin-deep.

[shadowgovt]

The great irony of the American bigot arguing against "chain migration" is that their immediate forefathers not only allowed it as a compromise, but embraced it with open arms.

In the fifties and sixties, those in America who deeply concern themselves with average skin tone saw a darkening country. They believed that fast-tracking immigration for family members would allow Europeans escaping the aftermath of World War II to immigrate rapidly to America, which would bolster the numbers and tilt the national average a bit, if you will, caucasian.

... what they fundamentally failed to grasp is that after the war, America sent her fighting boys (and girls) out to enforce Democracy over Communism at the point of a sword. Sen them to countries where the average citizen was not, generally, bothered by intense direct sunlight. And those boys fell in love. With people who distinctly lacked a certain, shall we say, Innsmouth look that our bigot friends preferred in their fellow citizens. Plus, folks from geographically-adjacent countries who went through the arduous process of naturalization were able to bring their extended families in as well.

The final consequence was a policy that had been supported on one side for mostly economic and "melting pot" reasons that was also supported by bigots for decidedly bigot reasons... Turned out to make the country more diverse, not the less-diverse the bigots had hoped for.

It's a feel-good self-own story.