[FollowingTheDao]

"Also, bad communities fail. They should be allowed to fail."

Are you not assuming something is not killing these communities from the outside?

Should all people who get an infection be allowed to die?

People are being squeezed to death by hypercapitalism and you blame the communities?

[tycho-newman]

Life has a 100 percent fatality rate

People fight for communities they want to preserve. There’s no guarantees that fight will be successful.

But when they don’t fight? Maybe it’s because they can’t. Or don’t want to. No one should ask them or force them to.

[FollowingTheDao]

"Life has a 100 percent fatality rate"

So, "no one should ask" a suicidal person to not kill themselves "or force them" not to.

It is when people cannot fight for themselves that those of us who can fight have to fight even harder. I am saying this as someone who has attempted suicide twice.

You are literally arguing in favor for shrugging your shoulders to things like slavery.

[tycho-newman]

No one should ask a suicidal person not to kill themselves.

If you believe in autonomy, every human has the right to decide when and how to end their lives. Slavery denies human autonomy by taking all control away.

Even when you think their decision is a bad one, it’s their life and their decision.

[daseiner1]

Asking isn’t forcing. And people who are suicidal are often in an unhealthy state of mind that doesn’t persist over an extended period of time. And we obviously place limits on autonomy in all sorts of ways.

[tycho-newman]

I don’t make the distinction between asking and forcing. To me, you can ask why someone wants to die. But stopping them? Or asking them to stop? Eh, not up to me.

[dijksterhuis]

asking

> The act of inquiring or requesting; a petition; solicitation.

forcing

> The accomplishing of any purpose violently, precipitately, prematurely, or with unusual expedition.

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unless you’re a psychopath, your 20 year old offspring calling you at 4am about to kill themselves is gonna result in you doing basically anything you can to save them.

it’s very easy to sit on the internet and take a perceived moral high ground. it’s much harder to retain that high ground when you get that phone call.

i used to have all sorts of bullshit “rules” like this [0]. but life ain’t binary man. absolutisms don’t really exist out there in the real world. i know it probably makes you feel “safer” knowing that you have a “rule” for this that you feel you can apply carte blanche — it used to for me — but it’s all bullshit man. it’s just the policeman in our own heads.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43803874

[grugagag]

Suicidal people are in a broken state, overcome by emotions and irrationality. When over that they’ll likely thank you for stopping them and likely to not understand themselves what the drive to kill themselves was except for remembering how cloudy they felt.

[tycho-newman]

That's all valid, but I'm going to stick to my autonomy rule. People are free to make fatal mistakes.