[moshegramovsky]

I agree 100%. It's exhausting fighting against antisemitic bias, and it feels like it's everywhere these days. My problem with Ed Martin is that what he is doing is clearly wrong. Hannah Arendt wrote a book about people like him.

[ummonk]

At a time when students are having their visas revoked merely for writing Op-Eds critical of Israel, it's rather ridiculous to see the pro-Israel side acting like you're the ones being persecuted everywhere.

[bawolff]

Since when do two wrongs make a right?

[moshegramovsky]

Your post proves my point quite exactly. Here you busy othering Jewish people by using language like "acting like you're the ones being persecuted". JEWISH PEOPLE ARE BEING PERSECUTED. I myself have been subject to anti-semitic treatment on/off throughout my entire life. I have been called the K word in the past. Current coworkers say things even though I am not even an Israeli citizen, and then are sure to add "of course Moshe we are not talking about you"...

I don't support what happened to Mahmoud Khalil. The Trump administration is evil. I might support Israel's right to exist, but I voted for Kamala because I support the US a hell of a lot more. None of the ordinary citizens of Israel or Palestine or the US is responsible for what's happening in Israel.

https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/new-fbi-data-ref...

If you're not Jewish it might be a little difficult to understand. I know quite a few Jews who do not dare light a menorah in their window. Who don't dare fly an Israeli flag or identify themselves as Jews in any way. I am secular, but synagogues have to have armed security.

Jewish people != Israeli government.

By the way, Americans are absolutely safe traveling to Israel. You simple cannot say the same thing for almost any Arab country. Well, that's how Jews feel almost everywhere in the world.

[emacsen]

The fact that my comment is -2 on HN is a great example of the problem.

I'm working on a solution to the effects of this isolation, but it's not ready for a big announcement.

[giraffe_lady]

Could one of you point me to antisemitic bias on wikipedia just so I have a concrete example at hand?

[moshegramovsky]

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i...

Read it for yourself.

[intermerda]

I tried giving it a shot. It starts with an "executive summary", followed by an intro to how Wikipedia works. The very first link to any concrete evidence is by a guy who has a page on PragerU with gems like "Russian collusion hoax" and how the "mainstream media" is "fake news".

It's a pretty simple case of Wittgenstein's ruler for me. It tells me more about ADL as an org than the content.

[hackandthink]

The analysis there is not convincing.

It is obvious that Wikipedia admins communicate with each other. The fact that Aljazeera is referenced is also okay.

In fact, this is not the official Israeli narrative, it seems rather trustworthy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co...

[Braxton1980]

Instead of posting another person's argument that contains your source can you be more specific?

This is like citing an entire book to prove a point.

[deeThrow94]

The ADL destroyed any credibility they had worked to build when they started conflating criticism of israel with antisemitism.

[Kim_Bruning]

Oh, that's VERY interesting. Thank you very much. Needs to be checked a bit more thoroughly, but the ADL report and the D.C. U.S. attorney's letter seem to have significant thematic overlap. It could well have served as one of the sources.

[pesus]

I'm not sure the organization that defended Musk's Nazi salute is a reliable source on antisemitism.

[emacsen]

Basically, almost any time Zionists are mentioned, they're mentioned in a negative light and with genuine disinformation, such as that Zionism is the belief that Arabs needs to be destroyed. That is like saying the Civil Rights movement in the US was about killing white people.

They also position things in such a way that implies antisemitic things, such as saying that Zionism is only 200 years old, or discussing the Israel wars only or primarily through an Arab lens.

These biases around Jewish topics are small individually but large in aggregate, especially in how they present Jews and Jewish topics.

Multiple Jewish and civil rights organizations have done a more comprehensive job at discussing this, even organizations who don't usually agree on things. While they talk about "anti-Israel bias" Wikipedia articles on or mentioning Zionism (80% of Jews are Zionist) are IMHO just as, if not more damaging, and demonstrate the issue.

Most importantly though, talk to the Jews in your life about this. They will tell you.

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/wikipedia-entrie...

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-846563

https://cameraoncampus.org/blog/seven-tactics-wikipedia-edit...

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i...

https://www.standwithus.com/post/it-s-time-to-correct-wikipe...

https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit...

[const_cast]

Zionism, as a belief system and ideology, is one built on colonialism and manifest destiny. That's literally, plainly, what it is. Naturally, these have associations with bad things. Most colonialist movements in history were bad for the people getting colonized.

You cannot subscribe to a belief and simultaneously exempt yourself from all consequences of that belief. What I mean is, if you are a Zionist, then you believe some people should be displaced in a conquest for your people. What happens to them? You cannot say "well, we can do it without displacement" or "well, I don't believe that".

No. That is the consequence of what you belief, and you therefore MUST stand by it. You MUST believe you are entitled to the land and sovereignty of Arabs, whether you choose to articulate that belief or not.

This is something Zionists sometimes struggle to comprehend. They wish to live in an alternate reality, where they can keep their beliefs and magically get to an outcome they desire without anyone getting hurt. It doesn't work that way. If your belief hurts people, _that means you want to hurt people_.

[Braxton1980]

>Basically, almost any time Zionists are mentioned, they're mentioned in a negative light and with genuine disinformation,

Your first statement is a sweeping generalization that you can't prove

[bawolff]

I don't know if that statement is true or not, but it certainly seems like a specific enough statement that could be proved or disproved given enough effort.

[Braxton1980]

Not an amount of effort in the realm of this discussion and that's all that matters

[immibis]

The question was about antisemitism (hatred of Jews or Semitic people), not about Zionists, and you completely failed to point to a single example of antisemitic bias on Wikipedia, which is what you were asked to do.

[dlubarov]

The vast majority of Jews are Zionists, and the two topics are inextricably linked. What would expect antisemitic bias on Wikipedia to look like? What would you accept as evidence?

[immibis]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. And I'd expect you to show some of the bias.

[giraffe_lady]

Most of the jews I know are through anti-genocide activism and they have a different view of this. I wanted to check because it is important to me that I not engage in antisemitism. Thanks for the info.