[patagonia]

If this can’t compete head to head (no tariffs or other import restrictions) with BYD and the like, then I don’t know why one would get excited. Feels like an expensive consolation prize with tons of compromises. I want competition.

[cityofdelusion]

You can't really compete in a any real sense when the labor price differential is so massive and the companies and supply chains are directly subsidized. The price does not reflect the product, but all its inputs.

[hedora]

The $20K from the article is after a $7500 subsidy.

[patagonia]

I never said that I’d expect that a US automaker would “win”. I want the best car at the cheapest price to be made available. And for that to be done within a level playing field with regards to safety / workforce / environmental / labor regulations. My expectation is that US automakers do not win, even with subsidies. But I do think keeping an industrial base in the US would be worth that compromise.

[hedora]

Historically, tariffs guarantee the local market will not win.

Tariffs (the "chicken tax") are directly responsible for US trucks being so expensive. They have no foreign competition in the US.

Environmental regulation loopholes cause US trucks to be so big, which is a related problem.

It's probably possible for US manufacturing to compete directly with foreign manufacturers, but they have no incentive to do so now that Trump extended the chicken-tax to all imported cars.

[themaninthedark]

It's not a loophole if you explicitly state: "This is what we are going to focus on." The CAFE regulations also regulate pickup trucks, just less stringently.

>CAFE has separate standards for "passenger cars" and "light trucks" even if the majority of "light trucks" are being used as passenger vehicles. The market share of "light trucks" grew steadily from 9.7% in 1979 to 47% in 2001, remained in 50% numbers up to 2011.[7] More than 500,000 vehicles in the 1999 model year exceeded the 8,500 lb (3,900 kg) GVWR cutoff and were thus omitted from CAFE calculations.[10] More recently, coverage of medium duty trucks has been added to the CAFE regulations starting in 2012, and heavy duty commercial trucks starting in 2014.

[ramesh31]

>"If this can’t compete head to head (no tariffs or other import restrictions) with BYD and the like, then I don’t know why one would get excited."

Would you prefer our roads flooded with cheap Chinese EVs that are the automotive equivalent of Shein hauls? Protectionism has its place in certain areas, and I would say building a thriving domestic EV industry that isn't beholden to a single weirdo is one of them.

[xnx]

> cheap Chinese EVs that are the automotive equivalent of Shein hauls?

Your perception of Chinese auto manufacturing is very out of date. This makes as much sense as calling Japanese or Korean cars cheap and low quality.

[patagonia]

I’m pretty sure there are more possible outcomes than “this one truck or cheap, dangerous Chinese EVs.” False choice fallacy.

A lack of import restrictions in no way prevents safety regulations. You could also subsidize the domestic automobile industry without having tariffs, so that we protect our domestic industrial base. These things take no imagination.

[dghlsakjg]

By most accounts the Chinese EVs are decent quality. What makes you think they aren’t?

[ramesh31]

NHSTA standards

[bryanlarsen]

European standards are tighter, and many Chinese vehicles are homolgated in Europe.

[popcalc]

This. US auto safety standards are infamously inane.

[dghlsakjg]

I can’t find any evidence that the NHTSA has ever evaluated Chinese EVs negatively. The ones not available in the US meet high standards in other places like Europe and Australia.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

[victorbjorklund]

Do you think that the rest of the world needs to protect itself from Tesla then and slap tariffs on any Tesla cars exported?

[ramesh31]

>"Do you think that the rest of the world needs to protect itself from Tesla then and slap tariffs on any Tesla cars exported?"

If it were a stated policy goal of said country to develop their own indigenous EV production at scale, then yes. The same the US did for 30 years after WWII to develop its own auto industry.

The era of dumping mass amounts of cheap "good enough" products on the global market, made entirely possible by the ignored and externalized costs of dumping trillions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere via oceanic shipping, is coming to a close.

[tayo42]

Do Chinese Evs break down a lot or aren't repairable?

[cmrdporcupine]

I drive a Polestar 2, which is a Chinese manufactured EV, and it's better quality than most North American vehicles.

The Munroe Live episode on it should disavow people of these biases. He ends it with a strong warning about people's weird biases about Chinese manufacturing.

[dzhiurgis]

Completely anecdotally from a friend who has BYD Atto3 - he had couple of issues with cameras. Plus some early rust (which is not unheard of in forums). So did his sister.

My impression of driving it - materials are nice, but overall experience (interior looks and software, aka what you use the most) was quite terrible in the context I own Tesla Model Y. I'm sure going from 15 year old Nissan you'd be ecstatic.

[Marsymars]

I mean, I’d certainly feel safer driving in a sea of cheap Chinese EVs than I feel in a sea of giant trucks and SUVs.

[maxglute]

It's a pickup for US market because it has no plans to remotely compete with BYD.

I think most Americans would go for a 15k Toyota Hilux Champ with similar design ethos, but chickentax.

[roarkeful]

I would buy 3 at that price, good grief.