[concerndc1tizen]

Do you guys ever feel tired of 'sounding the alarm'?

I feel like I've been doing that for years on a wide range of topics, but every time it's like you're talking to cult members.

How do you break through to people? People say things like "you're overthinking it", "that's never going to happen", "I don't care because I like using VSCode and not alternatives".

Is it individualism? That they only consider their own narrow short-term interests, and have become blind to collective problems?

[jeroenhd]

What's the problem for people who just use VSCode, exactly? The software still does what people want for free, which is what 99% of VS Code users use the software for anyway. People who care about open source-ness have their own extensions to replace their proprietary C++ tooling, or they can use an open source alternative like Eclipse.

I remember when basic features that come for free in VS Code cost thousands of dollars per developer, back when "update" meant "buy the new version (again)". I swear, people forgot how good they have it.

The change that made the Microsoft addon incompatible with VS Code forks happened four years ago.

[mort96]

For people who see VS Code as just a decent gratis text editor, there's no problem.

For people who care, to some degree, about using an open source tool, for whom the marketing that VS Code is open source played a role in their choice of using it, it should matter. And it matters that other projects (think Platform IO and more) choose VS Code as a platform to build on top of, and they get away with it because "it's open source".

[wolvesechoes]

Then people should stop caring about open source, care about free software instead, and do not forget that it is free-as-in-freedom, so they should still pay for their tools.

Otherwise keep hoping that your corporate or VC funded SaaS "disruptor" master will continue to be nice to you

[mort96]

But VS Code is not even open source, so even people who only care about open source should be worried about using VS Code.

[concerndc1tizen]

I feel like comments lately have become full of false statements.

VSCode is MIT licensed. But the extensions aren't, which locks you into the Microsoft distribution of VSCode. And that's how they turned an open source product into a monopoly-enhancing tool.

[mort96]

I agree, lots of false statements here. "Code - OSS" is open source, and released under the MIT license. Visual Studio Code is built by combining "Code - OSS" with proprietary code, and is released under the following non-open-source license: https://code.visualstudio.com/license

From their github repo:

    Visual Studio Code is a distribution of the
    Code - OSS repository with Microsoft-specific
    customizations released under a traditional
    Microsoft product license.

"Visual Studio Code" is to "Code - OSS" what Google Chrome is to Chromium. Microsoft has just been successful at tricking people into thinking that Visual Studio Code is itself open source through misleading marketing on their website and things like naming the github repository for "microsoft/vscode".

[flufluflufluffy]

Bruh, you can write your own extension, or use an extension created by another individual or company which is open source. They’re simply enforcing the policy that their extension can only be used with their VScode.

[npteljes]

I'm at that tired stage right now as well. The way I read the title: "Company did company thing". Absolutely no surprise. The question is always a when, and similarly, I don't expect this current thing to last forever either: maybe they rethink their decision.

Also, very often, the feelings don't correspond to the reality or the aftermath of the decision-making at all. For example, X seems to be hugely upsetting, but life generally moves on, and people are not that touched actually, as much as they protest to the opposite. This happens pro and contra issues as well; for example, people might hate Windows' latest X bullshit, but they won't change their OS in the end, or, pro example, people might feel like that stand by local production, but they won't actually buy local, because it costs more.

What we are very blind to are problems that don't have immediate negative feedback. Comfort and security are huge motivators, especially when people have to let go of them. PR and propaganda (same thing really) uses this, among others, very effectively.

[anon7000]

It's tradeoffs all the way down. VSCode remains one of the best intro editors, because it's free, has next to zero learning curve, and a robust extension ecosystem. I mean, what even is the argument here? That it's not completely open in every possible way? Do we feel so strongly about the heaps of paid IDEs that are completely closed source?

[kstrauser]

> Do we feel so strongly about the heaps of paid IDEs that are completely closed source?

Me, personally? No, because they're honest about it. I use BBEdit and Nova frequently on my Mac. Those are as closed source as it gets. They never pretend otherwise, though. You pay your money and you know what you're getting. VSCode tries really hard to appear to be open source, as long as you're willing to ignore the million places where they aren't. (Python devs: are you using PyLance? I'm talking to you.)

And ironically, those closed editors seem to play more nicely with the ecosystem as a whole. Neither BBEdit nor Nova have ever tried to talk me into installing closed plugins, and the same plugins that work with them work great in Emacs and Zed.

If I go to one bar that charged $5 per beer, and another that gives free beer but makes you rent single-use mugs for $5, even though the end price is identical, the rental bar's going to annoy me horrendously. Just admit what it is and let people judge on their own merits.

[eYrKEC2]

That's what "word to the wise" means -- you can't tell most people __anything__.

The opening of Proverbs has:

1:5. Let the wise hear and increase in learning[...]

[wolvesechoes]

Man, it is just a code editor.

Tech bubble remains tech bubble, when common, non-tech people are much more screwed, yet nothing is being done except saying "lol, just install Linux".

[hedora]

I just use the OSS vs code builds at home. (Work uses vscode).

Ever since I got remote mode working, I haven’t noticed any missing functionality I care about. (I also haven’t tried installing extensions for the pile of commercial services work uses, and that I wouldn’t pay for anyway.)

Edit: Since cursor now has near infinite VC money, perhaps they should fund a few open source devs to work on those forks. Why should they get a free ride?

[beeflet]

I think the problem with "sounding the alarm" is that it's not a tsunami that will immediately wipe out everything, it's more of a slow flood. The business strategy is boiling the frog.

[Guthur]

I think ultimately we're mostly just not as clever as we think we are, which I think unfortunately we must accept.

Where this has become increasingly problematic is rampant materialism and corporatism.

If the only real motivator in town, especially for the powerful, is material gain then there is nothing to constrain wanton greed. This becomes even more pronounced with corporations because their overtly stated purpose is not but greed, so even if the individual actors have some transcend moral compass they will be in conflict to their programmed imperative to "do their job".

Currently many of the powerful are materialistic and materialism can bring worldly power. Other political paradigms may come to the fore but as it takes a form and gravity it will likely come into some dialectic conflict with the prevailing materialistic status quo. That may be a peaceful resolution, but I'd not be certain of that.

[yoyohello13]

I’ve just lost all hope and have rock bottom expectations. Probably not the healthiest coping mechanism.

[pas]

find one/your community and contribute there?

[yoyohello13]

You know, you’re right. I’m going to try this.

[tbrownaw]

Meh. If it does eventually go away, it wouldn't be the first time I've switched editors. Which turns out to not actually be all that hard to do.

> Is it individualism? That they only consider their own narrow short-term interests, and have become blind to collective problems?

What collective problem, that someone might have to unexpectedly burn a weekend writing a new editor? That {emacs|vim} isn't popular enough? That people might have to go install openjdk in order to start using eclipse?

[mosura]

And when it turns out you were right the whole time they will pretend no one saw it coming and blame you for the problem.

You just have to let go of things you have no real influence over.

[concerndc1tizen]

Indeed! "No one saw it coming" is the most ridiculous thing I've been hearing for the last couple of months regarding global politics. They've literally been predicting and warning against the rise of these (political) issues for 20 years.

And in the same sense regarding VSCode, and the VC fueled takeover of the open source ecosystem; the old guard warned against it, that's why they promoted GPL as critically necessary.