[looofooo0]

Look at ISO 7730, a lot of comfort comes from non-cold walls and their radiant heat and small difference of wall temperatures to air temperatures. So having a thoroughly heated home allows you to lower your air temperature. Apart from that modern gas and even more heat pumps greatly gain efficiency by lowering flow water temperatures.

[aesh2Xa1]

Having read that document, the ISO 7730 model itself depends on stable temperatures. However, I think the key is simply to understand thermal mass; people can be in hotter air, but feel cold due to cold surfaces (e.g., floors or furniture), which heat more slowly (or lose heat more slowly) than the air itself.

Therefore, 1st: Heating/cooling cycles from your HVAC are fighting these objects because they don't mix at the same speed as other objects (e.g., the air itself), so you end up with gradients across objects; people rate this feels unpleasant.

2nd: Mechanical equipment tends to operate more efficiently under constant load compared to constant start and stop cycles.

With #1 and #2, you can just heat constantly to increase both the uniformity of heating across objects and also the efficiency of the mechanical equipment's energy conversion.

There's a 3rd point, which, really, is just a sneaky way of reframing #1 and #2, and that is that you can also lower your setpoint and still have a subjectively superior comfort perception compared to a cyclic system. It drives home the point to say "constant 68F feels more comfortable than intermittent 72F." But it also invites the complaint about constant versus intermittent energy use, right? So I think just detailing #1 and #2 is better.

[looofooo0]

https://www.krantz.de/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/layout-spec...

[aesh2Xa1]

That spec aligns with my understanding, including the model's dependence on comfort perception. I was, initially, in disbelief about it, but changed my mind after reading thru. The texty reply was to make it more palatable for someone like me to accept. I think we agree.

One thing I missed in summary is the concept of general radiant temperature gradient. It's not only about the gradient for conduction, but for radiation (and convection). So you could probably improve my summary by talking about any gradient between different objects in the environment and their EM, which feels unpleasant (but I think it had value in its reduction of the problem, too).

[Retric]

It’s a deep rabbit hole as condensation, humidity, etc also enter the picture. Efficiently lowering temperatures for sleeping further complicates things.

That said, heat loss is through exterior surfaces so you really want to avoid spot heating of poorly insulated exterior walls. Thus the design of baseboard heaters can make a larger impact than you’d think.

[looofooo0]

Baseboard heaters need very high temperatures. I would not recommend installing this anywhere. Having big Typ 33 heaters for temperatures below 45°C will greatly increase efficiency of your heating system. Otherwise, a split air con is also an efficient way of heating.

[sokoloff]

Baseboard heaters are often sized such that very high temps are needed (because that's what cheapest/lowest labor/least space used), but they don't have to be sized that way. In the attic bedroom, we have baseboards around the entire perimeter on two walls and same in the bath. I run the attic zone on the same water temp (outdoor reset controlled to be quite low) as the rest of the house (mostly large cast iron rads, one cast iron convector). Good insulation and air sealing in the attic means that the attic zone calls way less than the downstairs.

[looofooo0]

Which is not exactly efficient. 40C or less is desirable.

[sokoloff]

My return water temps are 115F (46C) on a P98 design heating day, and obviously cooler on warmer than design days. Cooler is always better, but "baseboards require 180F [82C] water because that's what's on the spec sheet" is a commonly-held but mistaken belief.

[looofooo0]

This is bad. Return water should be less 35 degree max. Actually 30 degree after the heat pump would be ideal: https://www.flow30.de/