[xbmcuser]

Lol this to me was the greatest stupidity from Europe. I get Petro states like US or maybe even Canada complaining about China subsiding energy and hurting their oil and gas but what the fuck did Europe protect. They even got fucked over by US into a Russian war and now they are stuck buying US gas.

[pjc50]

The Russian war is entirely the fault of the Russians, along with massive complacency after Russia shot down a planeload of Dutch nationals and used chemical weapons in a UK city.

[Gibbon1]

What's interesting is the US has always been opposed to Europe being dependent on Russian natural gas. And historically the US is an importer of natural gas. so it's not like the US wants to sell it's natural gas to Europe instead.

[NooneAtAll3]

any war is fault of diplomacy

it's european version of Cuba crisis - geopolitical enemy in the underbelly of nuclear power

[LunaSea]

It really isn't, Russia was integrated in most diplomatic and economic circles before they started to invade multiple neighbouring countries.

This integration is what led to Germany's Russian gas dependency in the end.

[NooneAtAll3]

> Russia was integrated in most diplomatic and economic circles before they started to invade multiple neighbouring countries.

...and how did that help solve the "european version of carribian crisis"?

ignoring reasons citing costs only expresses you having different values - but it doesn't solve the problem

there were attempts to make safeguards - to allow Ukraine into EU, but not NATO. Those failed

War is the result of those failures

[LunaSea]

> ...and how did that help solve the "european version of carribian crisis"?

Well it didn't, and that's my point. This was the diplomatic route and it completely failed. There was never going to be a diplomatic solution.

> there were attempts to make safeguards - to allow Ukraine into EU, but not NATO. Those failed

Yes, in 2013 Ukraine signed a trade deal with the EU and already at that time Russia pressured Ukraine to renounce this deal. Russia showed their hands at that point and clearly displayed to the world that it had nothing to do with NATO but rather about total control of Ukraine.

> War is the result of those failures

War started 11 years ago, after Euromaidan, at a time where Ukraine wasn't talking about joining NATO yet. NATO became a priority for Ukraine in response to the Russian invasion in 2014.

[mopsi]

> it's european version of Cuba crisis - geopolitical enemy in the underbelly of nuclear power

The Cuban Missile Crisis was about nuclear missiles only minutes from Florida. After the crisis, Cuba continued to host Russian fighter jets, bombers, tanks, and tons of other weapons until the USSR finally collapsed in 1991.

Ukraine had nothing of this sort, and to this day, doesn't have.

It is a lazy comparison thrown around to justify a textbook imperial land grab by Russia.

[hylaride]

> They even got fucked over by US into a Russian war and now they are stuck buying US gas.

Europe was stupid as they let "green" political groups (often historically clandestinely backed by Soviet/Russian government) get nuke plants shut down to shift to coal/gas.

While Europe was incredibly naive to remain so udderly reliant on Russian gas, especially after the the annexation of Crimea and the shoot-down of MH17, the war is 150% the fault of the Russian government and nobody else (USA, NATO, Ukraine, etc).

[Workaccount2]

The irony that the Chernobyl meltdown was probably the most profitable thing to ever happen to Russia.

[rjsw]

s/Europe/Germany/

[hylaride]

Germany was not the only one, but arguably the worst.

[Timon3]

But it was the conservative government in Germany that shut the nuclear plants down, the Greens were in the opposition at the time. When they were in power, the Greens even pushed back the shutdown. Kinda seems like you're assigning the blame unfairly.