[zoogeny]

So I have been using Cursor a lot more in a vibe code way lately and I have been coming across what a lot of people report: sometimes the model will rewrite perfectly working code that I didn't ask it to touch and break it.

In most cases, it is because I am asking the model to do too much at once. Which is fine, I am learning the right level of abstraction/instruction where the model is effective consistently.

But when I read these best practices, I can't help but think of the cost. The multiple CLAUDE.md files, the files of context, the urls to documentation, the planning steps, the tests. And then the iteration on the code until it passes the test, then fixing up linter errors, then running an adversarial model as a code review, then generating the PR.

It makes me want to find a way to work at Anthropic so I can learn to do all of that without spending $100 per PR. Each of the steps in that last paragraph is an expensive API call for us ISV and each requires experimentation to get the right level of abstraction/instruction.

I want to advocate to Anthropic for a scholarship program for devs (I'd volunteer, lol) where they give credits to Claude in exchange for public usage. This would be structured similar to creator programs for image/audio/video gen-ai companies (e.g. runway, kling, midjourney) where they bring on heavy users that also post to social media (e.g. X, TikTok, Twitch) and they get heavily discounted (or even free) usage in exchange for promoting the product.

[istjohn]

Why do you think it's supposed to be cheap? Developers are expensive. Claude doesn't have to be cheap to make software development quicker and cheaper. It just has to be cheaper than you.

There are ways to use LLMs cheaply, but it will always be expensive to get the most out of them. In fact, the top end will only get more and more costly as the lengths of tasks AIs can successfully complete grows.

[zoogeny]

I am not implying in any sense a value judgement on cost. I'm stating my emotions at the realization of the cost and how that affects my ability to use the available tools in my own education.

It would be no different than me saying "it sucks university is so expensive, I wish I could afford to go to an expensive college but I don't have a scholarship" and someone then answers: why should it be cheap.

So, allow me the space to express my feelings and propose alternatives, of which scholarships are one example and creative programs are another. Another one I didn't mention would be the same route as universities force now: I could take out a loan. And I could consider it an investment loan with the idea it will pay back either in employment prospects or through the development of an application that earns me money. Other alternatives would be finding employment at a company willing to invest that $100/day through me, the limit of that alternative being working at an actual foundational model company for presumably unlimited usage.

And of course, I could focus my personal education on squeezing the most value for the least cost. But I believe the balance point between slightly useful and completely transformative usages levels is probably at a higher cost level than I can reasonably afford as an independent.

[solatic]

> It just has to be cheaper than you

There's an ocean of B2B SaaS services that would save customers money compared to building poor imitations in-house. Despite the Joel Test (almost 25 years old! craxy...) asking whether you buy your developers the best tools that money can buy, because they're almost invariably cheaper than developer salaries, the fact remains that most companies treat salaries as a fixed cost and everything else threatens the limited budget they have.

Anybody who has ever tried to sell developer tooling knows, you're competing with free/open-source solutions, and it aint a fair fight.

[qudat]

> It just has to be cheaper than you.

Not when you need an SWE in order for it to work successfully.

[farzd]

general public, ceo, vc consensus is that - if it can understand english, anyone can do it. crazy

[Wowfunhappy]

> So I have been using Cursor a lot more in a vibe code way lately and I have been coming across what a lot of people report: sometimes the model will rewrite perfectly working code that I didn't ask it to touch and break it.

I don't find this particularly problematic because I can quickly see the unnecessary changes in git and revert them.

Like, I guess it would be nice if I didn't have to do that, but compared to the value I'm getting it's not a big deal.

[zoogeny]

I agree with this in the general sense but of course I would like to minimize the thrash.

I have become obsessive about doing git commits in the way I used to obsess over Ctrl-S before the days of source control. As soon as I get to a point I am happy, I get the LLM to do a check-point check in so I can minimize the cost of doing a full directory revert.

But from a time and cost perspective, I could be doing much better. I've internalized the idea that when the LLM goes off the rails it was my fault. I should have prompted it better. So I am now consider: how do I get better faster? And the answer is I do it as much as I can to learn.

I don't just want to whine about the process. I want to use that frustration to help me improve, while avoiding going bankrupt.

[vessenes]

i think this is particularly claude 3.7 behavior - at least in my experience, it's ... eager. overeager. smarter than 3."6" but still, it has little chill. gemini is better; o3 better yet. I'm mostly off claude as a daily driver coding assistant, but it had a really long run - longest so far.

[imafish]

I get the same with gemini, though. o3 is kind of the opposite, under-eager. I cannot really decide on my favorite. So I switch back and forth :)

[k__]

That's why I like Aider.

You can protect your files in a non-AI way: by simply not giving write access to Aider.

Also, apparently Aider is a bit more economic with tokens than other tools.

[zoogeny]

I haven't used Aider yet, but I see it show up on HN frequently recently (the last couple of days specifically).

I am hesitant because I am paying for Cursor now and I get a lot of model usage included within that monthly cost. I'm cheap, perhaps to a fault even when I could afford it, and I hate the idea of spending twice when spending once is usually enough. So while Aider is potentially cheaper than Claude Code, it is still more than what I am already paying.

I would appreciate any comments on people who have made the switch from Cursor to Aider. Are you paying more/less? If you are paying more, do you feel the added value is worth the additional cost? If you are paying less, do you feel you are getting less, the same or even more?

[Game_Ender]

With Aider you pay API fees only. You can get simple tasks done for a few dollars. I suggest budgeting $20 or so dollars and giving it a go.

[alchemist1e9]

As an Aider user who has never tried Cursor, I’d also be interested in hearing from any Aider users who are using Cursor and how it compares.