[vel0city]

> to drive home the Christian message

For "the Christian message" the death of Christ is the ultimate good thing. According to Christianity his death brings everyone's salvation, not the resurrection. This is my body which is given for you.

Sad so many Catholic churches fail at actually sharing that message.

[elcritch]

In Eastern Orthodox churches the main hymn we sing is:

> Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life! [1]

It’s sung about a hundred times in Pascha (Easter) liturgy, so _very_ well emphasized in the eastern traditions.

Though in eastern churches the emphasis was less on a juridical understanding of the passion wherein Christ fulfilled a legal requirement. Rather it’s more emphasized that Christ’s very nature destroys death by taking on death. That mental framework always appealed to me more. The early Egyptian (Coptic) church father Athanasius [2] was pivotal in refining the philosophical concept [3]. Athanasius was also the first recorded to record the full list of the 27 books of the New Testament.

1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_troparion 2: https://www.copticchurch.net/pdf/theology/incarnation_st_ath... 3: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_of_Alexandria

[vel0city]

I love hearing more about the viewpoint of Coptics, they're seemingly underrepresented in viewpoints in a lot of discussions in the US!

Your comments mirror a lot from my Egyptian friends. Thanks for sharing.

[elcritch]

I have some Coptic friends as well. They’re fantastic, and very proud of their Coptic heritage.

Alexandria was also very influential in early church theology and one of the primary bishopric “sees”. Interestingly they call their head bishop “pope”.

Also Coptic and Ethiopian iconography are gorgeous. They’re simplistic, almost cartoonish, but very artistic and emotional [1, 2, 3].

1: https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5537d482e4b0cd... 2: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/848717492273364910/ 3: https://www.axiawomen.org/wow/holy-week-and-easter-icons

[tptacek]

I have never been to a Catholic mass that failed to share that message. It's not a subtle detail.

[vel0city]

Maybe I'm being less charitable to Catholic churches on that. Truly a lot of Christian churches have failed on their messaging to others from what I've seen, and it's probably not just a Catholic thing. It's not like Joel Osteen is really sharing a truly Christian life and theology.

The fact there's a lot of people in this thread with this understanding should point to a lot of people not getting it though. I mean this is a whole thread of people not getting why it's "Good Friday" yet the Catholic Church has supposedly been preaching this point for over a thousand years.

I'm truly not anti-Catholic. I do think Catholics are unfairly painted by a lot of Protestants. As someone who walks between both worlds on a daily basis there's a lot of untruths and misunderstandings about Catholics out there.

[tptacek]

:homer-into-the-hedges:

It's cool, I'm just saying: Catholics definitely believe this; it's "Good Friday" because "Good" was synonymous with "Holy", so there's not much debate around that. All the denominations agree about the holiness of the event!

[getnormality]

Yes. GP is one of the most baffling comments I've ever read on HN. I really have no idea how one manages to arrive at that opinion.

[Tabular-Iceberg]

Thankfully mine made this exact point in the homily. Also great to see it made on HN of all places!

[lukan]

The whole suffering jesus on the cross everywhere is failing to bring that message across to me.

Im german it is Karfreitag (Karfriday) btw. and the whole week, Karwoche (Kar week). And that means sadness. Lamenting.

[vel0city]

In Christian ideology, his suffering and death was the suffering and death we were all supposed to have. He took that suffering and death so we don't have to, the "perfect lamb".

Looking at just that suffering on that one day is missing the context for everything else after, at least according to Christian ideology.

Also, an important part of the completion of previous prophecies for those looking at the older books. Jesus wouldn't have been the savior if those things didn't happen to him, according to the texts.

[lukan]

Oh thanks, but since I was also raised catholic, I am aware of the theory.

Still, the main visible symbol, is rather one of death and suffering to me.

Jesus does not look happy on those crosses, where he also has a face.