[TeMPOraL]

I've been listening to Moomin audiobooks and reading some of the books to my wife in recent years, and I started to spot some of the more adult/darker subtext in it (I'm still processing the one where the Moominpappa makes the entire family move to a lighthouse, and Moominmamma is desperately trying to cope with growing depression). Still, I have an answer for the author's conundrum, that's accurate for a significant fraction of the readerbase:

> "One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon is how these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and disfunction have been consistently misread as cutesy celebrations of domestic life."

It's actually really simple. Here in Poland, myself and my entire generation grew up watching the children cartoon adaptation of the Moomins. It was cute, it was happy, it had nice art and music, it was suitable for small children but engaging even to older ones, and it was aired when all kids would be watching[0]. This was our generation's intro to the Moomins, and it colored how we read the books.

I imagine the case is similar all across Europe. A whole generation primed to read these stories as positive and light-hearted, because of a TV adaptation.

--

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieczorynka - public TV (TVP1), every day at 19:00, just before the evening news slot. In times I grew up, watching this was pretty much a national tradition for any family with children.

[i_hate_moomins]

Light hearted? Suitable for small children? Are you kidding me.

I'm in my mid-30's and still remember nightmares those stupid series gave me when I was in kindergarten. It was X-Files-tier scary ("The X Files" being other show aired by polish TV around same time), masquarading behind cute animations. How can anyone in their right mind call the episode where the Moomintroll swaps bodies with Stinky lighthearted and positive? What about the collection of monsters like Groke or Hattifnats? On some occasion I remember my parents would call me to get out from my room to watch the "wieczorynka" and I would pretend I can't hear and come out only as I hear the outro song starting, just to avoid whatever insane plot the Moomins would bring on me that time. I hate Moomins so much and wish could erase it from existence. Calling it "cute and happy" is like saying candybar with razorblade inside is delicious; technically true but not exactly an accurate description.

[hjgjhyuhy]

What you describe is the very reason I let my children watch moomins. Not everything needs to be bland and boring like today’s children’s shows. World is not like that.

Over here im Finland me and every other 90’s kids watched these shows, and mostly turned our fine. There’s so much nostalgia around it all.

[jnurmine]

I've not seen other Moomin TV-series than the one made in Japan, so I can't comment on the others. The Japanese-made TV-series was probably watched by almost all children of a certain age group in Finland. Of course not all children liked the series or some episodes etc. but I'd say the vast majority did.

And yes, empirically, there were several "scary" things which freaked out the smaller children but were just amusing for an older child. The scary parts usually had a logical explanation or a backstory which made sense (or reflection with an adult made it make sense).

For example (I hope I remember all the details right):

The angry Ant Lion preying in a sandpit: eventually the Moomins manage to shrink it to peanut-size with the Wizard's hat, and it's not so scary anymore. It's still an Ant Lion, but very small, and the voice is high-pitched. Why isn't it scary anymore?

The Groke is scary as it stares while making gnarling sounds and all other characters are afraid of it, but The Groke doesn't want to harm anyone. In some episode a character explains that The Groke is actually very lonely. So it follows people as it wants to hang around them, but expresses itself in a scary way and since The Groke unvillingly freezes things where it goes, others avoid it.

The Wizard was dressed in dark clothes, looked scary and rode on a flying panther. But while The Wizard had a stern face and voice, he did not want harm to anyone and helped Moomins too.

Stinky may have a scary appearance, but also he is is not evil as such, just smells bad and does mischief like steals stuff. Which is why the characters are not so fond of him.

The Hattifatteners are like mushrooms, they grow from seeds, and move about, trying to reach the horizon in groups. They are drawn to thunder and electricity and they can zap someone with electricity if one touches the charged-up Hattifatteners. I always interpreted them like a force of nature, they're not looking to harm anyone, and are no more evil than wind that falls a tree is evil.

[npodbielski]

You created another account just to write how you hate moomins? Dude chill out.

Anyway, the fact that you did that and still remembering it after all those years proves how extra ordinary this work was.

[i_hate_moomins]

Yes, I did, and I see nothing wrong with venting about this particular piece of culture.

I respectfully disagree with the line of reasoning where "traumatizing" is equalled with "extraordinary".

[ktallett]

What is traumatizing to one child can be thought provoking to another. Not every one experiences any form of entertainment in the same way.

[npodbielski]

I do wrote that implying that you did anything wrong.

I just wanted to point out that the lengths you are willing to go through just to write 'I hate moomins' proves that it is extraordinary.

And remember that not everything is for everybody. If you do not like it, fine!

Just think about how traumatizing it was without depicting a violence or sex, achieving that with cute animation... Yes it is an extraordinary feat.

[klntsky]

It's funny that you made a throwaway just to post an opinion on a book for children on this site

[Tempat]

They’re speaking specifically about the TV series.

[trhway]

i wonder what you'd think about Brothers Grimm's tales :) And in general children folk tales in many countries do contain strong violence, cruelty, torture, etc. if you'd focus on those details.

[i_hate_moomins]

I read them when I was older, no strong opinion either way. I'm glad all screen adaptions I saw as child weren't literal. I vaguely remember my parents reading me a few of them and I think they adjusted level of terror to what I could stomach at the time.

[adrianN]

A lot of those stories try to teach children that going alone into the woods is a very bad idea. You have to read them in the historic context; don’t think they’re particularly suitable for modern children.

[trhway]

well, we may adapt them to what happens to the Red Hood when she crosses the road incorrectly and at the wrong place - not much different than meeting a hungry wolf. We may even add a video or two to spike the imagination and burn the lesson into the memory.

[Timon3]

Seems like "Hans-guck-in-die-Luft" (seems to be "Johnny-Head-in-the-Air"?) is predestined for this.

[bazoom42]

Some of the Grimms tales are incredibly gruesome, but it may be a misunderstanding to consider them childrens folk tales. Grimm collected stories told among adults.

In the 19th century it became a trend to publish fairy tales aimed towards children. But these were often sanitized versions of the stories told by adults.

[Aeolun]

It’s amazing what you get if you read the originals.

[mrmlz]

I agree there is a scene with the Groke when everything freezes and the moomins are inside their home.. That was freakishly scary.

Other than than the Moomins are pretty great. I got the branded coffee cups now (even with the Groke!)

[thih9]

> It was cute, it was happy

Many episodes had darker undertones as well, especially those with the Groke[1] or hattifatteners. Tvtropes has a list[2].

> The Groke was so horrifying in fact, that in Poland it caused a nation-wide fear in almost all children, some of which were even left traumatised for years, leading to some parents forbidding their children from watching Moomins, and some using the Groke as a Bogeyman to scare their children into good behavior. Any 90s or 2000s Polish kid will know how it felt.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke

[2]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheMoom...

[krige]

This is extremely exaggerated. The Groke is more of a meme here than some sort of night terror. Sure it had an impact and was memorable but there was no wave of traumatized kids spawned by it.

[thih9]

Maybe you watched a different cartoon, were not in that age group - or forgot?

There are many more accounts of that:

> The Groke has been widely considered one of the creepiest characters in fiction by many people and even by a study. In late 90's and early 2000's, when the 90's anime series - which is considered by many to have the scariest portrayal of the Groke in it - premiered in Poland, the Groke - known in Poland as Buka - caused a panic amongst Polish children. The Groke had different sounds - deep, eerie cold howls and moans preformed by voice actor Andrzej Bogusz. This, mixed with the darker colouring of the episodes (a trait shared with Finnish episodes and some other airings) and the fact that the Moomins were mostly played at night, in the Wieczorynka programming block caused the Groke to be widely considered one of the scariest childhood characters in Poland, both by 90's and early 2000's kids.

> Many children were horrified by her, were scared to go to sleep because of her, having dreams of her chasing them or turning into the Groke (some examples of such dreams could be found on the myslalemże.pl portal before it got shut down around early 2010's). The defunct portal Grono.net even had an Anti-Groke forum called ANTY-BUKA, where people would share their childhood stories about the Groke.

https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/The_Groke

And even first person:

> [google translate] How is it possible that a dark, buzzing figure can scare small children? Hey, I can't. As a child I was very afraid of it. Now I don't know why. When I talk to my peers (15 years old) they say they were afraid too. Why?

https://www.filmweb.pl/serial/Muminki-1990-119826/discussion...

[krige]

The filmweb discussion comment pointedly notes the author is not afraid of it now, and doesn't get why it was scary then. Several other comments also point out she looked lonely and less scary than the hattifnattar. Hardly the all-traumatizing experience.

[thih9]

Hardly "cute and happy" either.

[mrmlz]

................

Well I certainly had nightmares about that...