[0xbadcafebee]

I just realized that modern web applications are a group form of procrastination. Procrastination is a complex thing. But essentially, it's putting something off because of some perceived pain, even though the thing may be important or even inevitable, and eventually the procrastination leads to negative outcomes.

Web applications were created because people were averse to creating native applications, for fear of the pain involved with creating and distributing native applications. They were so averse to this perceived pain that they've done incredibly complex, even bizarre things, just so they don't have to leave the web browser. WebSockets are one of those things: taking a stateless client-server protocol (HTTP) and literally forcing it to turn into an entirely new protocol (WebSockets) just so people could continue to do things in a web browser that would have been easy in a native application (bidirectional stateful sockets, aka a tcp connection).

I suppose this is a normal human thing. Like how we created cars to essentially have a horseless buggy. Then we created paved roads to make that work easier. Then we built cities around paved roads to keep using the cars. Then we built air-scrubbers into the cars and changed the fuel formula when we realized we were poisoning everyone. Then we built electric cars (again!) to try to keep using the cars without all the internal combustion issues. Then we built self-driving cars because it would be easier than expanding regional or national public transportation.

We keep doing the easy thing, to avoid the thing we know we should be doing. And avoiding it just becomes a bigger pain in the ass.

[bonestamp2]

I agree with a lot of that. But, it's a lot easier to get someone to try your web app than install a native app. It's also easier to get the IT department to allow an enterprise web app than install a native app. Web apps do have some advantages over native apps.

[0xbadcafebee]

Yes, all of that is the reason why we procrastinate. "Easy" is the excuse we give ourselves to do the things we would otherwise have no justification for, and avoid the difficult things we know would be better. It's not my fault; it's not my responsibility; I shouldn't have to do extra work; it's too complicated; it'll be hard; it'll be long; it'll be painful; it's not perfect; it might fail. No worries; there's something easier I can do.

Thus we see the flaws in the world, and shrug. When someone else does this, we get angry, and indignant. How dare someone leave things like this! Yet when we do it, we don't make a peep.

[crabmusket]

You left out the part where you explain why native apps are so much better for users and developers than web apps?

I can't tell why you think WebSockets are so bizarre.

[koakuma-chan]

Many advantages, for example web apps get suspended if you’re not browsing the tab. But I do agree it’s much more attractive to write web apps mainly for portability.

[misiek08]

Native apps also are suspended. Or can be, like na iOS (not being fanboy, I appreciate this mechanism). Also native, desktop apps also can be almost suspended while not used.

Web apps are just way easier to do anything (rarely good), so many people are doing them without real engineering or algo knowledge producing trash every day. Article is also using same voice. Showing one protocol as completely bad, mentioning only the issues both approaches have, but silently omitting those issues describing „the only way, craft, holistic, Rust and WASM based solution, without a plug”

[koakuma-chan]

> Native apps also are suspended. Or can be, like na iOS (not being fanboy, I appreciate this mechanism).

On iOS web apps get suspended very aggressively, and there is no way for a web app to signal to the browser to not suspend it. I never developed native mobile apps, but I assume it’s less aggressive for native apps and/or native apps have a way to prevent themselves from being suspended. This doesn’t seem to be an issue on desktop though.

[flomo]

> bidirectional stateful sockets, aka a tcp connection

Which is not "easy" to do over the internet, so the native app folks ended-up using HTTP anyway. (Plus they invented things like SOAP.)

[0xbadcafebee]

TCP is easy to do over the internet. Did you mean the middleboxes? Ah, the middleboxes, the favorite scapegoat of the world wide web's cabal of committees. You'd think they were absolutely powerless. Like firewalls and application proxies are a fundamental principle of nature; unable to be wrestled, only suffered under. Yet the web controls a market share 500 times larger.