[shadowgovt]

> I don’t believe in voting for the lesser of two evils. It’s a myopic viewpoint that doesn’t take into account long term consequences.

I fail to see that position. There's always a choice between better and worse; even if the choice of better isn't what you want right now, it bends the arrow in the direction where the next choice starts from a better position.

Is your argument that there's a risk of local maxima? Perhaps. But I think it's hubris to imagine that if you bend the arrow down, you'll get to decide who survives the local minima to see whether there's a better maxima after it. That's a choice to put a lot of blood on one's hands.

[kelipso]

Yes, local maxima. You cannot reward a political party when they skip the democratic process and appoint a candidate. If they repeat it again, hopefully they keep losing until they learn their lesson and we get a better set of people who can run the country well.

[shadowgovt]

The issue is that the other side is actual fascism. There is significantly-above-zero threat that the "reward" America will get for getting the Democrats to "learn their lesson" is that they never get to usefully vote for a candidate again.

I would have preferred if the GOP hadn't put actual fascism on the table so that people had meaningful choice over policy (and, indeed, had Trump lost, perhaps it would be the GOP who would've learned their lesson that Americans won't tolerate fascism). But since they did, and America chose the GOP choice, we're now in a situation where the best we can hope for in 2028 is a vote to reject fascism instead of something better.

I don't think that gets us pointed in the right direction, sadly.

(In the larger sphere, the problem is people thinking all they can or should do is vote for President. There's a whole four years and several Congress and state elections in which to do something effective towards desired outcomes, but Americans get very drilled-down on the President only, to their detriment. Half the reason Congress is so sclerotic is most Americans can't be bothered to know who their Congressional reps are, let alone what they stand for).

[kelipso]

Okay, I don’t believe this actual fascism thing. Have been hearing it for 10 years and things have been fine.

[zzrrt]

I get it, I wonder if I am over-reacting too, but when they're shipping people to prison in the hands of a third world dictator for allegedly being gang members (we pinky promise but oops we made some mistakes), with no trial, against judges' direct orders, with US officials retweeting said dictator's giggle at doing it anyway... it feels different this time.

Back in the olden days of Bush or Obama, they would at least have a trial in a secret court with a judge who was maybe not rubber-stamping it, the public was pretty sure they were real terrorists, and the jailers (or executioners!) were Americans who faced consequences when they mistreated the prisoners.

[shadowgovt]

That's fine. Hitler's first attempt to seize power was a failed 1923 coup. He ascended to the Chancellorship in 1933. Germans also heard about fascism for ten years and things were fine.

... until they weren't. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there sure are a lot of historians in America who have actually packed up and fled the country as of late...