Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by AStonesThrow 433 days ago
Okay, well, the article in the OP describes a situation in Great Britain, and I'm unsure how accurately it describes the bookshop industry in the United States.

Here's what I've seen: Amazon.com came online as a bookseller, chiefly, and began to eat the lunch of every brick-and-mortar. Then in turn, independent sellers began shopping in those stores in order to snap up inventory and sell it in their cottage-industry online shops. My cousin noted, back around 2010, that many antique, thrifts, and secondhand stores were clogged not with consumers, but shoppers and arbitrators and pickers, just scavenging for anything they could sell.

Between 2016-2019 I was in ministry with a small "lending library" at church. We had two bookshelves full of books that parishioners might enjoy reading. We had just lost our entire inventory when I started, and so it was up to me to sift through donations, especially estates of the deceased, to build up the collection again. I destroyed a lot of bad titles in those days. I noticed that there wasn't a lot of demand to borrow, nor theft, except for the non-book media such as DVDs. There was someone interested in messing up all my organizational work, though. I began to realize there was no good way to recycle or donate the unwanted titles, and eventually I was sort of forced out when a deluge of Spanish-language books came in, and I couldn't keep up with the evaluations and the shelves were full anyway.

I've also hung out in libraries for a long time. Now if you have visited libraries over the last 5 decades, you've noticed dwindling shelf-space for physical books, as computer labs and other tech takes over. It's plain to see in action: nobody really wants to check out books on such a scale as in the 1980s. eBooks are hot properties, along with CDs, DVDs and video games, oh man the shelf space given over to electronic media now! Ask any librarian and they will tell you about the proportionate need for space in this regard.

Furthermore, there's this quiet revolution in "libraries" known as "Little Free Library". My municipality and many others sponsor and encourage them. They're essentially little residential kiosks where any passerby can take a book or leave a book. Essentially many become dumping grounds for unwanted titles and real junk, I suppose, but perhaps have some utility for bookworm types who stroll through neighborhoods, walking dogs, jogging, and hob-nobbing with suburban neighbors. Many cafés also have such library shelves for customer sharing. Books are often useful for very small children to have and pass down.

Going to college in 2017-2023, I noticed a lot of classes where students carried no books, no notebook, and not even a backpack! They'd bring in their phone to class! The eBook could easily be accessed online from an app, so why carry those hella-heavy books around? Many students in I.T., coding, and other tech subjects would have negative use for dead-trees and we regarded them as pure anathema, because it was all about the online access to edu materials. Books and the bookstore did exist, and there were mandatory titles in many disciplines, but always had eBook counterparts. (And yes, I saw The Half-Blood Prince and I understand the value of a well-loved secondhand text!)

Lastly I managed to divest my home of every single book I own, save for a few personal titles and a Bible or two. I found that I never sit down and read a book except in power-outages or trying to drift-off to sleep. Books are too heavy to carry on the bus, and impractical to store on a shelf when I'm not home. Every resource is vastly more useful when loaded into cloud storage for me. I've been unsuccessful in eliminating paper, and I still use a printer, and I still receive paper email in the USPS, but as for books, they're history.

So all this above stuff makes me shake my head at this OP. When I hung out in the libraries I read some classic fiction and got some good learning, but the library situation itself is pointing to a book-free future IMHO. I've known some great bookshops in my day, and cats to go with them, and they were anchors in the community for people to just chill and sit around, but I still regard them as Apatosaurs in this digital age.

1 comments

Ok? I'm in the United States too, and my girlfriend actively uses several of those "Little Free Library" stands around where we live (in addition to our actual local library). I personally haven't gone out of my way to "divest my home of every single book I own" as you "managed" to do.

It just seems like you're writing off an entire industry because you personally don't like paper books anymore (and have made that part of your identity). There's nothing wrong with you living like that, but it's not quite enough evidence to make statements like "no reason to waste real estate." The market will decide that (and in the case of Britain, it sounds like it's deciding more space is warranted rather than less, with different types of business models being the main question).

(By the way, your quirky use of the phrase "paper email" doesn't make much sense, either. I know you're trying to give off the air that you think paper mail is obsolete, but you might as well just call it "paper mail" and shorten your preferred medium of email to just "mail" if you want to do that. Otherwise, you're making the names of things unnecessarily long in perpetuity-- not so practical.)

> paper email

The USPS has this service called "Informed Delivery" where they scan the front-side of every mailpiece and send it to my email and a dashboard on their website. So every service day, they literally email me images of what my physical postal mailbox will receive later in the day. It's not farfetched. The USPS has been running electronic scanning for internal purposes for decades, and they have perfected OCR for address recognition and routing. It's rather amazing how they tooled up for this, and adapted to all the crazy ways that humans can send paper through the mail. But just about everybody that works for the Post Office is a space-alien:

https://youtu.be/lr7pyggTmmY?si=g8PN_ajCo9I281-5

It's not simply me disliking books. It's the entire world and the industries that are drying up. Look around you! Newspapers going out of business, or transitioning to online models. They simply can't distribute paper newspapers so widely anymore. Nobody likes to carry them around, the newsprint is wasteful, the logistics are byzantine, and so many people can just instantly visit websites (and print stuff if they want) why keep printing, printing, printing?

Amazon, as I mentioned, began as a bookseller, and now they're actually printing stuff on demand as a publisher. In fact, many publishers are printing titles on demand, rather than stockpiling them in a huge warehouse (wasting real estate and overhead costs.) Many, many customers have openly complained, bewailing the poor standards and shoddy print quality they receive from these POD services, because books used to be artistic masterpieces, an occasion for celebrating the pinnacle of design and artisan craftsmanship; feeling a book in my hand and smelling it, and looking upon the cover art: truly an emotional, spiritual experience. But it's in decline, and you can't deny that.

Yes, it's a very slow decline. Yes, there's still space for dead-tree books and big storefronts to cram them on shelves, because even those brick-and-mortar locations can sell online to eBay or Amazon customers halfway around the world. But it's in decline.

All of this same stuff happened to vinyl records. I grew up with Mom's 78RPM turntable and listened to Bing Crosby on it. We had fun playing 33.333 RPM and even 16RPM on the Heathkit stereo system that Dad assembled himself. I spent TONS of Grandma's money on vinyl records, imports, 12" singles, cassettes, audio CDs, boxed sets, coloured vinyl, picture discs, flexi discs stapled into magazines: you name it, I purchased it, I wore out the needle on it, it all got stolen and sold to the secondhand record dealers.

Now you can still find vinyl records in big cardboard sleeves with marvelous art and you can still purchase a direct-drive turntable with a diamond needle and you can play all those vinyls on your analog tube amplifier with Monster Cable oxygen-free leads and Cerwin-Vega 3-way speakers with a subwoofer and Dolby sound. But nobody who's really a music lover cares about vinyl; you're just a vinyl lover and a nostalgia freak and a misfit who pines for the bygone days. Nobody even buys or makes many CDs/DVDs anymore since we got legal digital distribution.

That's the same way that books will go. It'll be a long time, indeed, but eventually the market will squeeze out paper books and you simply won't find the titles you need on paper. Those college bookshops will reclaim their very valuable shelf-space for graphing calculators, ear-buds, and chocolate bars. The printing presses will be unrepairable; some will go to museums and most will go to the metal scrap-heap forever. Xerox and Canon will continue servicing office copiers but paper itself may become scarce. Who knows.

> The USPS has this service called "Informed Delivery" where they scan the front-side of every mailpiece and send it to my email and a dashboard on their website. So every service day, they literally email me images of what my physical postal mailbox will receive later in the day. It's not farfetched. The USPS has been running electronic scanning for internal purposes for decades, and they have perfected OCR for address recognition and routing.

Yeah, that's electronic real mail, not paper email. It's irrelevant to the term you attempted to use. "Paper email" would be printing out an email and sending it on paper instead, which is not what you were referring to (which is why it didn't make sense as a term to use).

You said "I still receive paper email in the USPS." The USPS is not printing out emails and delivering them to you on paper. Therefore, that statement was incorrect (nonsensical).