[verdverm]

> and then try to answer that question by making tools that could analyze/visualize logging output or a stack trace

We already have industry standards for doing this. Why would I want to build some micro-tool/throw-away code to do what another tool does much better and battle tested?

[smj-edison]

1. In many cases you need something very specific that an existing tool doesn't do well

2. All the tools work together

3. All the tools are tracked in a central repository

[verdverm]

That's the pitch but it does not seem the reality. It seems like the exact opposite of unix philosophy, one tool to rule them all, rather than doing one thing really well.

I can achieve the same with unix philosophy, using the tools and languages I already know.

[tudorgirba]

Nice point.

Indeed, it is possible to build tools elsewhere. The question is: do you build them, and if yes, when?

What we show with GT is that it is possible to build such tools for every development problem. This leads to thousands of micro tools per system that should co-exist.

GT is not a large tool to rule them all. In the Unix analogy, it is Unix, not one of the tools :).

This still leaves the question of why would want to build those tools when there are standard tools already? Because systems are highly contextual. This means we can predict classes of problems but not specific ones, which then means that any clicking tool built before the problem is known will not be addressing the specificity of that problem.

This is actually not that new of an idea. Testing is already done like that. We do not download tests from the web and run them on our system. We develop them as part of development after we know the problem. It's that contextualization that makes us stop every time a single test fails as we know that each of them captures something that our system specifically cares about.

Now, a test is a tool. We can extend the same idea to any other tool.

Does this address the question?

[verdverm]

I think you believe we all struggle with your framed problem and your tool is some panacea. In reality, every tool and process has its limitations and rough edges, including yours as you've hopefully gleaned in comments here.

Being married to a specific tool like GT is limiting. GT doesn't work with most industry languages _today_, even though _in theory_ it could. It's written and scripted in a language few use, which makes it unapproachable

[tudorgirba]

I definitely do not want people to marry to tools. That does not sound like a good idea not even if the tool is glamorous :).

More seriously, thank you for sparring with me.

GT is free and open-source. It's extensive. It comes with documentation, too. We even document the practices and the process, too. With public case studies. With peered reviewed publications. And we even bet our own livelihood that it works for tackling hard problems in significant systems that others cannot tackle.

So, yes, we are not just claiming that the problem exists. We have seen it validated first-hand over a large period of time (15+ years) so we are reporting on it :).

This experience points to the idea that decreasing the cost of creating a tool is much more important than the tools that exist out of the box.

Regarding the support for other languages, it's true that we only have analysis support for a couple of dozen languages. But creating the support for a new one is often measured in days. For example, it took a couple of weeks to add COBOL to the set. I challenge you to find even one properly working open-source parser (we looked and could not really found one). In GT you can find a whole free and open-source infrastructure :).

GT is certainly not a panacea. It's a documentation of how the approach can work. I am not aware of any other environment in which tools can be built in minutes and in which thousands of them practically co-exists. If this appeals to people, and it does appeal to some, now they have a vehicle to practice with. And for those that choose to not do that, that's Ok as well :).

[tudorgirba]

Nice summary!

4. New contextual tools can be built inexpensively :)