[Propelloni]

First, it is sufficient to only pay 50 % of the stock capital at registration of the GMbH, ie. 12500 EUR. Obviously you also have less operating capital then.

Second, the money is not gone. It is right there in the company's account. You use it to pay company bills.

The only thing annoying about German GmbH is that it can take 6-8 weeks until you get your tax id and registration numbers. You can, of course, already do business with the name postfix "i.G.", ie. instead of "Foobar GmbH" you write "Foobar GmbH i.G." and done.

EDIT: typo

[nottorp]

> Second, the money is not gone. It is right there in the company's account. You use it to pay company bills.

That's fine if you start a restaurant or small workshop and need money for salaries, materials etc, of course.

It's a barrier to entry when you can start something digital only with just a person or three putting in sweat equity and zero to very little actual cash.

[Propelloni]

The barrier to entry is the idea that you need a limited liability corporation to start something digital by the seats of your pants. You can always start as a GbR (virtually no costs, spend a day at your city's administration to get a tax id). I mean this in the most charitable way, what kinds of liabilities are you afraid of in that scenario?

Once your idea gets traction and money comes in you hopefully will be able to spare the 1 EUR you need for an UG. Anyway, I recommend investing into founding a GmbH as soon as possible, not for liability's sake but marketing's. You will not make inroads into corporate procurement without a "proper" incorporation.

[nottorp]

> I mean this in the most charitable way, what kinds of liabilities are you afraid of in that scenario?

Why do you think I know all the kinds of companies one can register in Germany? :)

I'm not even german or in germany, just keeping myself informed. You never know when it becomes useful.

Up until today I only knew of the GmBH. Now I know of two more types.

[Propelloni]

I've got the impression that you knew a little about German corporations, but I have been wrong before, so my apologies.

I guess, one can assume that all countries with working institutions (and some without) have at least a simple personal liability corporation, which is easy and cheap to establish, and a basic limited liability corporation, which is a little bit more involved and expensive to establish. I guess, because I haven't done any research, but I've come across such corporate forms in Germany, Italy, France, UK, Luxembourg, Hungary, Serbia, Congo, UAE, Estonia, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, USA, Canada, the Philippines and probably a few more.

[nottorp]

> I've got the impression that you knew a little about German corporations

I did, about the GmBH, from other discussions on HN. As I said, now I know more, thanks.

> have at least a simple personal liability corporation, which is easy and cheap to establish, and a basic limited liability corporation, which is a little bit more involved and expensive to establish

Yes, but in RO where I am the minimum capital for a LLC is like 100 EUR not 25k :)

That's barely enough to pay a cheap accountant for a month ofc.

[Propelloni]

Oh, cool info. Thank you! I'm always surprised how large the differences of cost between EU nations are. We really need better arbitrage ;)

[notpushkin]

Why not try Estonia instead? You’ll need to get an e-signature card (“e-Residency”) which might take about a month, then you just submit an online form and get your company number the same day. Mimimum capital is 1 €, and the fees are about 400 € for setup and 100 €/yr for virtual address. https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/eresidency-germans/

The downside, of course, is that you probably won’t get any direct(-ish) subsidies from Germany — although any pan-EU options should be on the table.

[Propelloni]

> Mimimum capital is 1 €,

If you are talking about an OÜ this is often repeated and technically wrong (the best kind of wrong). One, actually the minimum capital requirement is 0.01 Euro per shareholder, and two, Estonian courts are pretty clear that in an OÜ with less than 2500 EUR capital the shareholders are personally liable to cover the difference between share capital and 2500 EUR to trustees.

[notpushkin]

Yeah, you’re technically right (the best kind of right!) — on both counts.

However, if I understand everything correctly (IANAL), personal liability is basically the same. If you go for 2500 € capital and your company becomes undercapitalized, you’ll still be personally liable for any claims against your company, no?

(But personally, I just like how this opens opportunities even for people for whom 2500 € is a serious amount of money. Granted, you probably shouldn’t open up a company in this kind of situation, but at least you can!)

[Propelloni]

Sweet gorilla of Manila! Anyway, I only had to deal with an OÜ once, so take it with a grain of salt. And IANAL, too ;) What I took away is that you are sheltered from claims against the company by economic avtivity, ie. outstanding fullfilment, but you are liable for claims against the company from management misconduct, ie. neglecting tax duties or, worst case, bankruptcy.