[Infinity315]

> That short sighted western leadership were so eager to ship off manufacturing jobs to China has been a disaster for the west.

In what way are you quantifying this? Would you agree that the quality of life has improved significantly compared to the 1980s or whatever period you want to compare to?

[Gud]

For many people, no.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt

[Infinity315]

For many people, sure. I can always find exceptions to the rule. I am talking statistically. Fact of the matter is, the bottom 20% QoL has improved significantly, correct?

[Gud]

Frankly looking at many indicators it would seem large chunks of the US is doing terrible, not just the bottom 20%.

You now have enormous piles of debt, obesity, millions hooked on drugs, a blossoming private prison industry and a nation without a future?

I quote from Wikipedia: ‘In 2013, George Friedman, the head of Stratfor, wrote that the middle class' standard of living was declining, and that "If we move to a system where half of the country is either stagnant or losing ground while the other half is surging, the social fabric of the United States is at risk, and with it the massive global power the United States has accumulated."[54]’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_the_Un...

Looks like most of the gains since the 80s have been concentrated to the top.

[danaris]

Sure, but most of that has nothing to do with the loss of manufacturing jobs. It has much more to do with the tremendous transfer of wealth from the bottom quintiles to the top, enabled by the gutting of unions, the destruction of regulations, and the abandonment of any kind of effective antitrust policy.

[owebmaster]

> enabled by the gutting of unions, the destruction of regulations, and the abandonment of any kind of effective antitrust policy.

Isn't this what happened because companies moved their manufacturing to other countries?

[danaris]

Some, yes, but the cause and effect are somewhat blurred because both were happening over a long period of time. They each contributed to each other in a feedback loop, and I don't claim to be enough of a scholar of that period to know for sure which one started first.

[Yeul]

If you were serious about improving the lives of normal people you would be voting for Bernie Sanders. Not the party handing out tax cuts for the rich, that is against the minimum wage and destroyed the pension system.

[lenkite]

If you listen to Bernie's speeches, he talked about high tariffs too.

[taveras]

Link to a speech where he does this? I’d love to see receipts.

[Gud]

I’m not allowed to vote in the US. I’m not American.

[leereeves]

> For many people, sure. I can always find exceptions to the rule. I am talking statistically. Fact of the matter is, the bottom 20% QoL has improved significantly, correct?

That's really a decision each person should make for themselves, and it was a big part of the reason Trump won the election. Most people don't think their QoL has improved.

Obviously the perspective here is different due to the success of the US software industry, but that industry only employs a tiny fraction of the population.