[immibis]

The free marketplace idea obviously has not worked to combat disinformation, because we're trying the radical free marketplace idea and so many people are believing so much disinformation that they're threatening to destroy every western country. One of them is already destroying itself, not just threatening to.

[FirmwareBurner]

>many people are believing so much disinformation

That is a symptom, not a cause. That means education system is bad and has failed people, OR, that people are so desperate with their living standards that they're not disinformed but they just want to take revenge on the establishment that has failed them by voting extremes.

Either way, those are symptoms, not the cause so I don't believe government enforced censorship is the solution because that's exactly what totalitarian regimes did when people were unhappy. The solution is for the establishment to accept they have failed the people and start to do good for the people or step down.

This means the democratic system IS working as intended, as if you were to censor speech and take away peoples' only legal way of protesting (voting), then their next alternatives is violence and uprising.

[tpm]

> That means education system is bad and has failed people

What if the education system can't fix this? Not just the current one - any education system.

> that people are so desperate with their living standards

What if people's propensity to believe utter bullshit is independent of their financial situation?

> Either way, those are symptoms, not the cause

What if the tendency to believe bullshit is the cause? You have failed to prove it isn't, so your proposed solutions probably won't work and indeed may make matters much worse.

[FirmwareBurner]

>What if the education system can't fix this?

If your nation's education is so bad that 51% of the population buys into disinformation with no way of convincing them otherwise, then you'll have to accept you're doomed as a country and deserve that fate. Might as well give up on democracy and anoint an emperor or king to rule over you, because there's no point in cosplaying as a democracy if you're not planning to respect the will of the majority at the elections.

>Not just the current one - any education system.

Switzerland and nordic countries like Denmark seem to be quite well educated, highly transparent, low corruption and a decent democracy. So it is possible.

>What if people's propensity to believe utter bullshit is independent of their financial situation?

People's political biases are ALWAYS tied to their wealth, education and social class. Just compare a map with wealth/income distribution with a map with blue/red voters.

>What if the tendency to believe bullshit is the cause?

Look in the mirror.

[immibis]

> If your nation's education is so bad that 51% of the population buys into disinformation with no way of convincing them otherwise, then you'll have to accept you're doomed as a country and deserve that fate. Might as well give up on democracy

Since giving up on democracy in this situation is a good thing, according to you, will you finally stop complaining about it?

[tpm]

> then you'll have to accept you're doomed as a country and deserve that fate.

Or, you know, you try to limit the spreading of disinfo, simply to protect the weak. We could for example have a talk about how the people most prone to fall for disinfo are the old and farthest removed from the reach of the education system.

> if you're not planning to respect the will of the majority

You are the one who is not respecting the will of the majority. The government is formed by majority coalition coming from the elections, and the government is doing this. The will of the majority is respected by fighting the disinformation.

> Switzerland and nordic countries seem to be quite well educated and a decent democracy. So it is possible.

Nordic countries are part of the EU and on board with these policies, so no idea what are you on about here.

> People's political biases are always tied to their wealth and social class. Just compare a map with wealth/income distribution with a map with blue/red voter.

It would be nice if you tried to engage with what I wrote and not something completely different.

Ah yes.

[immibis]

You still didn't tell me what you think should be done about it. I understand from your vague gestures that the answer is "nothing", perhaps because you enjoy the fact that developed world powers are crumbling to dust. There are reasonable reasons one might hold that position, but if that is in fact your position, you should acknowledge it.

> I don't believe [X] is the solution because that's exactly what totalitarian regimes did

Hitler also ate sugar. Ban sugar!

> The solution is for the establishment to accept they have failed the people and start to do good for the people or step down.

This contradicts your stated position, because preventing disinformation is good for the people, but you don't think the establishment should do it.

> This means the democratic system IS working as intended, as if you were to censor speech and take away peoples' only legal way of protesting (voting)

Very obvious non-sequitur. What do penalties against the app formerly known as Twitter have to do with taking away voting rights?

[FirmwareBurner]

This comment is not in good faith so I won't entertain it further.

[xracy]

lol, your comment reads as: "This comment asks me to suggest a fix, and I don't have one, so I will pretend that the other poster isn't worth responding to for unrelated reasons."