[huevosabio]

Mega-tangent: As a host, I feel compelled to rant about Airbnb whenever they come up in a discussion.

The last 2 years they have _really_ moved to squeeze the hosts. The customer service has been demolished and they seem to have taken a stance of "the guest is always right". I've spent countless hours going through their customer service as a super host, so I know I have a decent amount of anecdata.

My suspicion is that they found themselves with more supply than demand, so they are "improving the guest experience" at the expense of the hosts. Since they are a quasi-monopoly (depends on the market) it makes sense for them to prune supply in exchange for better guest experience, a full market approach makes less sense since they make money in proportion to the total amount of money transacted (which as a monopoly it can optimize for in the way a free market can't).

But I think this will blowback sooner or later. The biggest value for an Airbnb guest is the review system that allows you to have some degree of certainty of what you are getting. The biggest value for a host is the massive global audience. But guests and hosts, pay a steep fee (17%!) for this. For well-reviewed, long-living stays (like mine :)), paying 17% is way too much to access this audience: the listing already has an online record that provides that quality assurance for the guest, and the host could spend that money on advertising.

So that's what many of us are doing, moving to PMS + paid advertising / SEO to diversify on distribution channels. I think there's an opportunity for capturing that semi-pro host market and bundling them in a similar offering that 1) doesn't squeeze them, 2) offers a proper PMS software, and 3) charges a flat fee instead of a variable rate.

[jeofken]

PMS as in Pantone Matching System or Premenstrual Syndrome?

AirBNB can be equally frustrating for users as well. Recently ended up at night in a new city in northern Japan where the host told me the listing was at a different address, where I found nothing, and got only radio silence from the host. Every hotel room in town was occupied that night. Airbnb support, seemingly in far away India, told me to try contacting the host, and that was that.

Also recently stayed at a place with a dog that shat inside due to the owner not taking them out; due to politeness no one had complained in the reviews.

Also Airbnb lists one price but when booking it always ends up being way more with more fees added.

I’m using hotels.com with a filter for “has kitchen” these days, which was the only reason I used Airbnb in the first place

[appreciatorBus]

PMS - Property Management System, aka what actual hotels use to manage room inventory, bookings, etc.

IMO most of the things that people like about AirBnB vs hotels is downstream of the failed experiment of urban planning. If we want hotel operators willing to "spend" floorspace on kitchens and other niceties, then legal floorspace can't be scarce or special, but most of the current planning regime is oriented around enforcing limits on floorspace. Ditto for having options of places to stay that aren't tourist traps or commercial areas.

[ghaff]

I suppose hotels can have a few rooms with kitchens but I'm guessing a vanishingly few people care about kitchens when traveling outside of maybe a microwave and a small refrigerator. AirBnB that are larger (e.g. houses) can also be nice for groups but that's more outside of cities than in a city center. Hotels tend to optimize for the 90% case.

Where I'm staying at the moment is a "serviced apartment" and does have a couple burners but that's unusual and I mostly stay here because I like the location in London.

[secabeen]

A large fraction of families traveling value the kitchens (leftovers, kid breakfasts, not having to eat restaurant food for every meal, when all the kids want is Kraft Mac&Cheese, etc.) and the common living spaces (kids go to bed early). I hate traveling with my family and being stuck in a hotel room (or two!). When I'm traveling alone or with just adults, I can be out all day and only use my hotel room for sleeping, but with a diverse set of ages traveling, we often hang out in the living room while someone naps, or my kids will be done with touristing by 3pm and we need somewhere to be until dinnertime.

You see this in vacation destinations like Hawaii and Ski towns; there is a significant fraction of accommodations that are Condos, because you need a place to hang. AirBNB brought that to urban areas by sub-letting apartments, when hotel operators only provided maximally-dense sleeping-focused options; multi-bedroom hotel rooms with living rooms and kitchens largely did not exist in major city centers.

[seany]

This is the primary reason I use Airbnb and it's equivalents. My typical traveling party is 4 adults, 3 kids, and 1-2 dogs most of those people have a preference to cook rather than eat out. Accommodating that in a hotel is a disaster unless you get an ultra low price of a double suite or something.

[ghaff]

That's really the sweet spot for Airbnb (and Vrbo). Very few conventional hotels accommodate large groups well. If you're just trying to save a few bucks as a couple or solo traveler I'm not sure it usually pencils out given other tradeoffs.

[ghaff]

My point was that this is a minority preference in most paces.

[appreciatorBus]

If it truly is a minority preference, then we need a way to square that with all the people saying they book AirBnB's instead of hotels because of the kitchens. :)

[huevosabio]

Yes, this is spot on. The more lax the regulations for hotels, the less appealing Airbnb is.

[appreciatorBus]

Sure tho TBF I wouldn't use the word lax - it implies there's something dangerous or untoward going on and we are choosing to let it slide. :)

Rather since the rules limiting hotel size, locations, quantity etc have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with class, exclusivity, and segregation, we can jettison them confidently without worrying that we are being too lax about anything important :)

[huevosabio]

PMS as property managements software :).

And yes, I use Airbnb as a guest as well, but I gauge the risk of having a bad host into the decision making.

We also get all type of horror stories from guests that had a bad experience and found themselves trying to find a last minute place to stay.

The problem is that the Airbnb app heavily disincentivizes "professionalization". They have a small cartel of PMS providers that can actually hit their API. I can't build my own systems on top of their API, I have to go through a middle man or use the their crappy app.

Their app is so incredibly obtuse that it puzzles me how people shower Airbnb as a "great product design company". It's a beautiful app sure, but incredibly clunky. It's like a call center phone menu made into an art piece.

[hintklb]

I never even understood why people even think Airbnb is a tech company.

They basically operate a pretty simple website. Most of their busines is about arbitrating issues when they come. This has nothing to do with tech.

I would bet that United Airlines or American Airlines website handles way more queries than Airbnb.

But for some reason they managed to market themselves as a "design driven" "Tech company".

[huevosabio]

It's a tech assisted operations company, similar to Uber and Lyft.

The key distinction between say United Airlines and gig tech companies is that the latter will aggressively avoid owning physical assets and use tech to be a streamlined middle man in a market that actually requires a lot of operations.

They are a tech company, but in the sense that they get their edge from software not that they sell it.

[hintklb]

Surprised to hear this because I had a very weird experience on my last stay. (and it will always be last as I will never stay at an Airbnb again).

Airbnb sided with the Host for some fabricated damages because the host was mad we told them the place was unclean. They put the burden of proof on us to prove we didn't destroy one of the sinks. Absolutely ridiculous.

We had to fight it for 3+ hours on the phone and message and start a chargeback and only then did support drop the fabricated charge.

And to top all of this, Airbnb deleted our bad review from that place (but left the review of the host).

So, never, absolutely never again. Too bad because I was spending 2k+$ on Airbnb before that incident and only got great reviews from other hosts.

[carlosjobim]

You are yourself in the business of squeezing, so any company that will be willing to deal with you will have the aim to squeeze you.

[gregorymichael]

AirBnB and Uber both have a dynamic where the host/driver has often taken out a loan and modified their lifestyle to depend on this income, which makes them the easier party to squeeze.

[bickfordb]

I have a smalltime Airbnb and I feel the same. Their only value is in their marketing distribution and they take 30%+. Their hosting tools could be worse but are not particularly great. Usually things work fine, but they have zero / hostile customer service on the host side on the random exceptional occurence. Hopefully more marketplaces show up

[9283409232]

I would love to not use Airbnb as a consumer but there is no real alternative here. I hear a lot of people say that Airbnb is just as expensive as hotels but I just don't see it. I'm looking at traveling and a hotel in the area is $900 to $1200 while Airbnbs are $500 to $800.

[mtlynch]

>So that's what many of us are doing, moving to PMS + paid advertising / SEO

For those of us not in this space, what does PMS mean?

[lurk2]

> Property Management Systems (PMS) or Hotel Operating System (HOS), under business, terms may be used in real estate, manufacturing, logistics, intellectual property, government, or hospitality accommodation management. They are computerized systems that facilitate the management of properties, personal property, equipment, including maintenance, legalities and personnel all through a single piece of software.

[gsempe]

PMS as Property Management System

[barbazoo]

> paying 17% is way too much

Have you considered increasing the cleaning fee to recoup some of that money? /s